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jocker · Apr 13, 2005, 01:06 PM

So.... I turned it on. And I can see why its not enabled by default (only enabled using the developer tools)

Panther was fast.

Tiger was much faster still.

Tiger with Quartz 2D extreme - UI is absolutely incredible, much faster than windows. And thats on a 10 month old, 768mb, Powerbook 15" 1.33Ghz. I am utterly, absolutely, blown away.

So why did apple turn it off by default? Perhaps because if they left it on, people wouldn't upgrade their hardware so readily!

Am I violating NDA if its been announced? If so - close this thread please!

lookmark · Apr 13, 2005, 01:10 PM

Yes, surely Apple doesn't want Tiger to be too *too* fast.

It's much, much more likely that there are some serious glitches that didn't allow it to make the GM deadline. Hopefully they can be resolved in a 10.4.x update, and we don't have to wait until 10.5.

jocker · Apr 13, 2005, 01:23 PM

* Embarrassed * Yes that would make a lot more sense! Still, I'm leaving it on.

lookmark · Apr 13, 2005, 01:31 PM

Originally posted by jocker:
* Embarrassed * Yes that would make a lot more sense! Still, I'm leaving it on.

That speed report sounds very alluring... I'd be interested to know if any visual (or any other) problems pop up while enabled. You can turn it systemwide from the developer tools?

chabig · Apr 13, 2005, 01:41 PM

I remember that 10.1 had window buffer compression but that it was turned off by default. If I am correct, Apple made window buffer compression the default in 10.2. Perhaps Quartz 2D Extreme will be handled the same way and made the default at a later date.

Chris

Millennium · Apr 13, 2005, 02:29 PM

Technically, you're violating an NDA.

My guess is that they did this because they don't feel comfortable with how much they have tested it. It's possible, for example, that they want to wait a while for some Tiger-specific apps to come out, then hit the switch in their QA labs and see if it all still works right.

Socially Awkward Solo · Apr 13, 2005, 02:42 PM

Originally posted by jocker:

Tiger with Quartz 2D extreme - UI is absolutely incredible, much faster than windows. And thats on a 10 month old, 768mb, Powerbook 15" 1.33Ghz. I am utterly, absolutely, blown away.

This sounds a lot like "I got a OSX with the debug code removed" thread.

xi_hyperon · Apr 13, 2005, 02:51 PM

Would be interesting to hear if you encounter any weird display bugs as a result of turning it on. I think in the movie posted in the other thread, the Apple engineer said it was especially challenging to render text using 2D Extreme (I believe this was his comment, but was working while listening, so I could have misunderstood). Perhaps there are text related bugs which still need to be squashed.

ThisGuy · Apr 13, 2005, 02:59 PM

Originally posted by jocker:
So.... I turned it on. And I can see why its not enabled by default (only enabled using the developer tools)

how?

Don Pickett · Apr 13, 2005, 03:13 PM

Originally posted by ThisGuy:
how?

The only important question.

Eug Wanker · 03:21 PM

Originally posted by jocker:
So.... I turned it on. And I can see why its not enabled by default (only enabled using the developer tools)

What's the problem? Buggy?

Originally posted by Socially Awkward Solo:
This sounds a lot like "I got a OSX with the debug code removed" thread.

Except that Quartz 2D Extreme would add speed, and it actually does exist. In fact Apple itself gushes all about it in the WWDC videos. They just haven't put it on their Mac OS X website.

So if it indeed is disabled in Tiger by default, anyone could just re-enable it with the developer tools... and get a speed boost (it's not too buggy for daily use).

You need the appropriate GPU though. The GPU is any GPU that is Core Image compatible.

Socially Awkward Solo · Apr 13, 2005, 03:35 PM

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
You need the appropriate GPU though. The GPU is any GPU that is Core Image compatible.

You'd think that since those are fast new computers anyway the speed boost isn't needed or noticeable though.

lookmark · Apr 13, 2005, 03:39 PM

Originally posted by Socially Awkward Solo:
You'd think that since those are fast new computers anyway the speed boost isn't needed or noticeable though.

Really? I don't think I've ever heard anyone complain that OS X's GUI was just too goddam fast.

Eug Wanker · Apr 13, 2005, 03:41 PM

Originally posted by Socially Awkward Solo:
You'd think that since those are fast new computers anyway the speed boost isn't needed or noticeable though.

Window resizing on a dual G5 Mac still has lag. It's not a big deal in the greater scheme of things, but it's still noticeable.

Having Q2DE with fast hardware would eliminate much of the GUI speed complaints once and for all.

Don Pickett · Apr 13, 2005, 03:43 PM

Could someone please tell us how this is done?

lookmark · Apr 13, 2005, 03:45 PM

Originally posted by Don Pickett:
Could someone please tell us how this is done?

That's the forbidden question, friend.

[whisper] It might have something to do with Quartz Debug, though. [/whisper]

Chuckit · Apr 13, 2005, 03:46 PM

There's a button labeled something along the lines of "Enable Quartz 2D Extreme" in Quartz Debug. You click it. (Or at least that's how it was done before. I don't imagine they would have moved it.)

Don Pickett · Apr 13, 2005, 03:46 PM

Originally posted by lookmark:
That's the forbidden question, friend.

[whisper] It might have something to do with Quartz Debug, though. [/whisper]

Oy.

Don Pickett · Apr 13, 2005, 03:48 PM

Originally posted by Chuckit:
There's a button labeled something along the lines of "Enable Quartz 2D Extreme" in Quartz Debug. You click it. (Or at least that's how it was done before. I don't imagine they would have moved it.)

Thanks. My G5 needs hacked.

xi_hyperon · Apr 13, 2005, 03:56 PM

Originally posted by Chuckit:
There's a button labeled something along the lines of "Enable Quartz 2D Extreme" in Quartz Debug. You click it. (Or at least that's how it was done before. I don't imagine they would have moved it.)

Yep that it. The WWDC video shows the guy doing exactly that to enable it.

Zadian · Apr 13, 2005, 04:20 PM

Does this need a special GPU or will it work with all Macs running Tiger?

Oh, and if this question isn't allowed - just wait until April 29. before answering.

Eug Wanker · Apr 13, 2005, 04:23 PM

Originally posted by Zadian:
Does this need a special GPU or will it work with all Macs running Tiger?

To get the the full GPU acceleration of Quartz 2D Extreme you need a Shader 2.0 GPU. ie. At least a Radeon 9600 or a GeForce 5200.

If you don't have the right GPU, it will fall back to Quartz 2D, which you're running right now in Panther. (People are saying that Quartz 2D is still a bit faster in Tiger though, even without Quartz 2D Extreme, but I dunno if that's true or not.)

Socially Awkward Solo · Apr 13, 2005, 04:25 PM

Originally posted by Zadian:
Does this need a special GPU or will it work with all Macs running Tiger?

Like they said you need a video card that supports Core video.

Detrius · Apr 13, 2005, 06:37 PM

Originally posted by jocker:
So.... I turned it on. And I can see why its not enabled by default (only enabled using the developer tools)

Panther was fast.

Tiger was much faster still.

Tiger with Quartz 2D extreme - UI is absolutely incredible, much faster than windows. And thats on a 10 month old, 768mb, Powerbook 15" 1.33Ghz. I am utterly, absolutely, blown away.

So why did apple turn it off by default? Perhaps because if they left it on, people wouldn't upgrade their hardware so readily!

Am I violating NDA if its been announced? If so - close this thread please!

You are announcing information that is not otherwise available publicly. Therefore, you are breaking NDA.

The fact that a ship date has been announced doesn't change the fact that Tiger isn't available. I'm closing and deleting a LOT more threads than usual. NDA's still apply until Tiger ships.