[Kerrigan]

Do you enjoy thinking about philosophical issues?

I find that the more philosophical works I read, the crazier and more disjointed my worldview becomes, which is ironic because philosophy is supposed to solve that problem. So lately I've been sticking to philosophers whose views I find easy to digest, such as Hume or the Stoics, and still I find myself with a very jumbled philosophical outlook.

Does anyone else here experience this problem? Could it be that philosophy is a waste of time for common people like you and I?

[shabbasuraj]

Philos

rocks.

[Ghoser777]

I enjoy solipsism.

[Volks]

No I think philosophy is like a dog chasing its own tail.

The human mind will always be limited. We will only be able to percieve just a tiny amount of everything there is. So trying to formulate philosophical truths about abstract concepts is just absurd, as there is no way to test them conclusively. But the "science" does provide a nice payment for so-called philosophy professors and a lifestyle for trendy dumbasses.

There is a higher conciousness in the universe, God, and only he knows and is able to percieve everything.
Philosophy is just man's own ridiculous attempt to replace the truth of God. If you want a perfect worldview, read the bible.

[Nai no Kami]

That's all, Volks. Quack.

[Albert Pujols]

I find that it's best not to think at all.

[Kerrigan]

true dat

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by Albert Pujols

I find that it's best not to think at all.

So does Volks apparently.

[Kerrigan]

I have a feeling that Volks is Budster reincarnate.

[strictlyplaid]

Originally Posted by Volks

Philosophy is just man's own ridiculous attempt to replace the truth of God. If you want a perfect worldview, read the bible.

I wish truth were that self-evident. Even if you can figure out which God is the right one, you're still left with the task of interpreting what on earth he/she/whatever is trying to tell you. And why he didn't tell you about quantum physics, outer space, or dinosaurs.

[strictlyplaid]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

Do you enjoy thinking about philosophical issues?

I find that the more philosophical works I read, the crazier and more disjointed my worldview becomes, which is ironic because philosophy is supposed to solve that problem. So lately I've been sticking to philosophers whose views I find easy to digest, such as Hume or the Stoics, and still I find myself with a very jumbled philosophical outlook.

Does anyone else here experience this problem? Could it be that philosophy is a waste of time for common people like you and I?

I tend to think that the journey is more important than the destination, as it were. Struggling with these issues is not likely to lead to definitive answers -- at least, if 4,000 years of previous inquiry is any guide. But by thinking through these issues, I think you come to a more sophisticated understanding of the world and are likely to make more thoughtful and (for empirical questions) more accurate statements than you did before. For example, you'll still have disagreements about when it's just to go to war, but you'll be more likely to agree in cases where the argument for/against is strong, and the disagreements that you do have will be more relevant and more likely to make whatever decision you end up making more defensible.

[Salty]

This is why I prefer theology to philosophy . Theology you get to study things much more, as this is what we have that ultimately states the truth, now how do we then take that and get closest to what we can reasonably think it must be meaning to say. Now great, how should that shape our view of the world?

I once heard it mentioned that the greek philosophers felt a need to find God in some sort or another. Where as the hebrew way of thinking simply assumed God, and took it from there. I find it actually makes a lot more sense when you assume God, and then go from there, eventually it becomes tough to see how since everything makes sense now God shouldn't be assumed. If that makes any sense.

That said I have a bit of an advantage... seeing as how I died around the age of 3, so most of my developing thought assumed God.

[- - e r i k - -]

Yes, it's a lot easier to take a stance and then reject anything you don't agree with.

[Salty]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

Yes, it's a lot easier to take a stance and then reject anything you don't agree with.

Uhh... or it's easier to have a solid look on life when you are not jumping between 5 different perspectives because they all make as much sense as each-other. See I can put a bad spin on things too

[- - e r i k - -]

Actually it's quite easy to have a solid look on life when you base your life on things that can be proven, tested and rejected if they don't stack up. It's called science.

[forkies]

Originally Posted by Salty

I once heard

great way to discuss armchair philosophy

[Salty]

Originally Posted by forkies

great way to discuss armchair philosophy

OK if you want the book it is form is actually the Educational Ministry of a Church by Tidwell. It's in the introduction, and if you want the exact quote I was reading, go buy the book yourself!

[smacintush]

For me reading philosophy was like putting a puzzle piece in place. I saw something that I knew all along but hadn't seen it so clearly in front of me.

[bradoesch]

Can anybody recommend some good reading for a 'beginner'? It drives me crazy too but I find it quite interesting and somewhat important.

[Ghoser777]

Pooh and the Philosphers

[ghporter]

Theology is often simply a set of philosophical axioms accepted because they are said to have been handed down from on high. I feel that it is important for everyone, whether or not they subscribe to a particular theological framework, to establish their own moral and ethical rules. These rules may or may not conform to a recognized religion's rules. A person should ACTIVELY understand what he or she is doing and why; he or she should really deep down understand his or her own definition of "right" and "wrong." Otherwise he or she is simply playing "sheep" in the great production of life.

[BRussell]

There's a theory of depression that one of the key factors is thinking too much, in particular, thinking about yourself too much. Here's a link. It seems to be better to not think too much, and people who are always thinking about themselves tend to be depressed.

[Kerrigan]

Brussell: I have heard from one of my professors that when you are depressed you tend to see things more clearly. Yes this is anecdotal I don't have any links to prove it, but I trust that he knew what he was talking about.

Plus, it seems to make sense based on my experience of life and feeling down.

In fact, I have noticed that when I spend a lot of time taking a good hard look at life, and the fact that you can't even prove the existence of the "Self", I tend to feel down and sometimes I even feel sick for a few hours.

[ReggieX]

A pirate walks into a bar, and the barkeep says "Excuse me, cap'n, but did you know that you've got your ship's wheel stuck in your pantaloons?"

"Aye," says the pirate, "that thing be drivin' me nuts! Aaargh!"

[BlueSky]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

and the fact that you can't even prove the existence of the "Self", I tend to feel down and sometimes I even feel sick for a few hours.

When the Self is looking for the Self, where will the Self be found?

[Salty]

Originally Posted by ghporter

Theology is often simply a set of philosophical axioms accepted because they are said to have been handed down from on high. I feel that it is important for everyone, whether or not they subscribe to a particular theological framework, to establish their own moral and ethical rules. These rules may or may not conform to a recognized religion's rules. A person should ACTIVELY understand what he or she is doing and why; he or she should really deep down understand his or her own definition of "right" and "wrong." Otherwise he or she is simply playing "sheep" in the great production of life.

Agreed. This is where theology comes in handy. You have far more boundaries than you have in average philosophy. Thus you can't simply say, "this is acceptable because I want it to be" frankly there's lots of things I'd like to do but know are wrong. And knowing that something is wrong forces someone to figure out why that actually is wrong, and reason it out so that they can understand why it's wrong.
Keeps you from doing all sorts of things that you'll regret later.

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

Brussell: I have heard from one of my professors that when you are depressed you tend to see things more clearly. Yes this is anecdotal I don't have any links to prove it, but I trust that he knew what he was talking about.

Yeah it's called depressive realism. It's definitely a debated concept, but that's what he/she was talking about.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

Brussell: I have heard from one of my professors that when you are depressed you tend to see things more clearly. Yes this is anecdotal I don't have any links to prove it, but I trust that he knew what he was talking about.

Plus, it seems to make sense based on my experience of life and feeling down.

In fact, I have noticed that when I spend a lot of time taking a good hard look at life, and the fact that you can't even prove the existence of the "Self", I tend to feel down and sometimes I even feel sick for a few hours.

I think your professor is full of it. I have been clinically depressed, and I found (and the therapists that helped me out of the depression confirmed) that depression usually revolves around a downward spiral of "listening to the negative voice." In fact, there's a whole school of treatment for depression that is 100% based on evaluating the negative self talk and debunking it-it's called Cognitive Therapy, and it often works far better than medication. A depressed person may see ONE thing with crystal clarity, but it's most likely to be his own failings, not any of his successes or anything that mitigates those failings.

Sorry, but I have been there.

[wdlove]

Philosophy isn't driving me crazy at all.

[Goldfinger]

I absolutely loathe philosohpy, it's so pointless IMHO. So I will do the bare minimum to pass my exam of this subject.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

Brussell: I have heard from one of my professors that when you are depressed you tend to see things more clearly. Yes this is anecdotal I don't have any links to prove it, but I trust that he knew what he was talking about.

Are you sure it's not the other way around, i.e. you see things more clearly then become depressed?

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by ghporter

I think your professor is full of it. I have been clinically depressed, and I found (and the therapists that helped me out of the depression confirmed) that depression usually revolves around a downward spiral of "listening to the negative voice." In fact, there's a whole school of treatment for depression that is 100% based on evaluating the negative self talk and debunking it-it's called Cognitive Therapy, and it often works far better than medication. A depressed person may see ONE thing with crystal clarity, but it's most likely to be his own failings, not any of his successes or anything that mitigates those failings.

Sorry, but I have been there.

I agree with what you've said here, but the depressive realism idea is based on research showing that non-depressed people tend to always overestimate how much personal control they have, e.g., in a study where people press a button, watch a light turn on and off, and judge how much control they are exerting over the light. Whether or not people really have influence over the light, they think they are influencing it. Depressed people in these studies have been found to be more sensitive to varying levels of control.

I'm glad you got off that ****ing depression. It's just about the worst thing in the world for a person to go through.

[ghporter]

Interesting. I can relate to that, but I think it may be less from being more observant and more from being pessimistic about whether the light will actually go off when you flip the switch. Non-depressed people do take a lot for granted; their "inner voice" tends to interpret events in a positive way. After all, if you really think about it, we ARE all gonna die, and most people just can't manage to put that into perspective.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by ghporter

After all, if you really think about it, we ARE all gonna die, and most people just can't manage to put that into perspective.

Hence religion.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

Hence religion.

I am not so sure why the non-religious think they know why those that believe, believe.

Usually it's really far off base.

[realmeatychunks]

I love philosophy. If nothing else it encourages people to think -- how can this possibly be bad?

Everyone should take an existentialism course (or read it on their own).

[SuvsareRetarded]

Originally Posted by Volks

If you want a perfect worldview, read the bible.

Yeah, there's no contradictions or hypocritical confusing statements in there. Nope, not at all. Only fun happy stories about the genocide of millions of people for choosing to believe differently than another group of people.

[Kerrigan]

I used to think religion was just the common man's way of dealing with the inevitability of death, but this raises the question: Why did the early Jews, who practiced devotion to god through their religion, have no concept of the afterlife?

[SuvsareRetarded]

Religion is around because people are tribal, and they didn't understand things. If they had a shitty year, if food was hard to find, if anything happened they could not explain, they used what they knew to hypothesize an answer. They knew other people, they knew other people's reactions. Surely if something awful is happening that must mean that there's some big guy in the sky who is pissed off at us.... maybe we can make him happy by leaving some food out? come on guys! let's all just think about this imaginary guy who has no proof of his existence other than what happens here on earth that we lack explanations for, but let's keep doing this! Eventually we can meet other people who believe things a tad different from us, go to war, and either kill them all or enslave them! Religion is great!

[Millennium]

One of my friends runs a really cool D&D one-shot sometimes, which centers around Western philosophy. The idea is that the great thinkers from Socrates all the way down to the modern day have been gathered in the Halls of Knowledge, but a band of ignorance-demons has forced them out of their rooms and are generally causing a lot of chaos. The players' task is to defeat the ignorance-demons and restore the philosophers to their proper places, or Western philosophy as we know it will be permanently altered.

There's nothing quite like fighting the Marquis de Sade (who uses an electrified mancatcher for a weapon) with the Platonic ideal of a Hedonistic feast, while Rousseau is cowering in a corner of the jungle because of all the "scary women" you've unleashed and Diderot is furiously cataloging everything for his Encyclopedia. My wife's major problem with the adventure is that Occam keeps killing her with his razor, but she survived his assault last time and kept it as a trophy.

[ReggieX]

Originally Posted by BRussell

sig: If evolution is true, why are there still monkeys? - Larry King, Aug. 24, 2005

Did he really say that?!

[ReggieX]

Originally Posted by Millennium

My wife's major problem with the adventure is that Occam keeps killing her with his razor, but she survived his assault last time and kept it as a trophy.

That's what you got to keep it simple!

[SuvsareRetarded]

Originally Posted by ReggieX

Did he really say that?!

Wow. I hope not. Then he is admitting he doesn't know what evolution is about at all.

[SuvsareRetarded]

Philosophy does tend to muck things up when you first start with it, because you realize just how complex most things are. Life isn't simple at all. It's nice to think about simple theories and ideas that can apply to any given situation in life, but it's sort of a false hope. I can't think of any philosophy that would apply to every situation. However, the upshot of studying philosophy is that you get to read about and use some very good ideas that people have created, thus giving you the same ability to use them, without having to go through all the pioneering work that they did to create them. If you have a few philsophers you like, then it makes thinking about life a lot easier, because you could choose which ideas you need in different situations.

[Doofy]

I see it differently. Life is actually a lot simpler than most philosophers would have us believe.

Student: "Master, what should I do to achieve enlightenment?"
Zen Master: "Have you eaten breakfast?"
Student: "Yes"
Zen Master: "Then wash your bowl"

[spectre]

Philosophy has made me realize how stupid I really am. But throw out a few quotes by Aristotle to your grandparents, and they think you're a genius.

Oh and yes.. Philosophy is turning me nuts. Try reading some Nietzsche. But make sure you wash it down with some Russell.

[ghporter]

Nietzsche was a nut, but an inspired nut. Russell liked confusing people. Trying to make sense of most of the great philosophers without their social context is inviting a pretty high Richter scale migrane.