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probablecause · Nov 2, 2006, 11:51 AM

Why is it unreasonable to expect that a police officer be in decent shape? Can you tell me how a 300lb cop is gonna be able to pursue someone in a foot chase? It seems that being overweight entitles people to some kind of quasi-protected status. I'm sorry, being disgustingly overweight can never be accepted as someone's valid "life choice".

The following comment is from one of the cops who was offended by the request and I think its the most telling:

One of the anonymous complaint letters described the force as "upset to say the least" about the chief and called the "Jelly Belly" memo "the icing on the cake."

Seems like all they can think about is cake.

'Jelly bellies' memo�costs police chief his job - CNN.com

turtle777 · Nov 2, 2006, 11:54 AM

Is that the one who raided the donuts shop in a helicopter ?

-t

Dork. · Nov 2, 2006, 12:08 PM

It was pretty clear from the article that the memo was not the only complaint that his employees had against him. I agree that the description in the article makes the memo appear to be pretty reasonable, but without knowing what the overall culture in the department was really like we can't really say whether this was warranted.

Dark Helmet · Nov 2, 2006, 12:21 PM

The bad thing is when you want to be a cop you only have to pass the physical test ONCE when you join and after that you can get as fat and slow as you like.

probablecause · Nov 2, 2006, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by Dork.

It was pretty clear from the article that the memo was not the only complaint that his employees had against him. I agree that the description in the article makes the memo appear to be pretty reasonable, but without knowing what the overall culture in the department was really like we can't really say whether this was warranted.

Perhaps. But they chose the wrong issue to finally fire him over if that were the case. If he was so awful then there should have been many excuses they could have used to get rid of him--but they selected this one. I'm just wondering if this is a situation is one in which a new leader is brought in to change things and make unpopular decisions but isn't supported by his own bosses.

probablecause · Nov 2, 2006, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

The bad thing is when you want to be a cop you only have to pass the physical test ONCE when you join and after that you can get as fat and slow as you like.

You're correct. In some cases even that first physical exam is waived or made easier. For example, the NYPD has been known to accept recruits who don't meet the minimum requirements.

I don't mean to slam heavy cops too much though. Everyone is getting stupidly fat and cops are no more fat on average than civilians probably. Soon, you could probably be a fairly successful burglar in Winter Haven, Florida just by staying thin enough to outrun the police.

Rumor · Nov 2, 2006, 12:52 PM

He has a valid point.

A cop has to be pretty fit in order to chase a suspect on foot. They carry all that gear and a vest, which isn't light.

exca1ibur · Nov 2, 2006, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by Rumor

He has a valid point.

A cop has to be pretty fit in order to chase a suspect on foot. They carry all that gear and a vest, which isn't light.

Two words...

Justified Shooting

Dark Helmet · Nov 2, 2006, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by probablecause

You're correct. In some cases even that first physical exam is waived or made easier. For example, the NYPD has been known to accept recruits who don't meet the minimum requirements.

It sadly depends on if you are in a minority group.

Two of my friends are cops and they had a hell of a time getting accepted even though they are both fit, tall, extremely smart and muscular.. but they are still white men.

If they were black women they would be in the next day with a very lenient physical test.

macroy · Nov 2, 2006, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by probablecause

Perhaps. But they chose the wrong issue to finally fire him over if that were the case. If he was so awful then there should have been many excuses they could have used to get rid of him--but they selected this one. I'm just wondering if this is a situation is one in which a new leader is brought in to change things and make unpopular decisions but isn't supported by his own bosses.

Maybe it was the final straw? It does make it sound like he was not a very effective leader. Perhaps it wasn't the message itself, but the way it was communicated? I think a more effective solution would be to actually introduce examinations and physical fitness programs.

Rumor · Nov 2, 2006, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by exca1ibur

Two words...

Justified Shooting

You can't justify shooting a fleeing suspect because you're too fat to chase them. (I don't mean you as in "you" but in the general sense)

mitchell_pgh · Nov 2, 2006, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by probablecause

Perhaps. But they chose the wrong issue to finally fire him over if that were the case. If he was so awful then there should have been many excuses they could have used to get rid of him--but they selected this one. I'm just wondering if this is a situation is one in which a new leader is brought in to change things and make unpopular decisions but isn't supported by his own bosses.

I agree, I would have let it blow over (placing a formal reprimand on file) and then waited until something else came along and let him go. Now everyone is screaming "They fired him over asking his force to be fit!!!!" when in reality it was probably more to do with other issues.

Person Man · Nov 2, 2006, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by probablecause

The following comment is from one of the cops who was offended by the request and I think its the most telling

I would be offended too, if I was handed a memo entitled, "Are you a Jelly Belly?"

"Jelly Belly" IS NOT a term I would have used under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.

Dark Helmet · Nov 2, 2006, 01:55 PM

I can see where the problem is. The letter on its own isn't bad and very reasonable to point out that fat cops can't do their job.

BUT, if this guy is a jerk than this letter would be the last straw.

I had a boss that expected everyone to make their jobs their life just because he made his job his life. He would call you any hour of the day and expect you to jump to his demand. He would also change hours randomly, think you don't get holiday's off etc. If he would have sent a letter out with content like that I would have flipped and demanded he got removed.

probablecause · Nov 2, 2006, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh

I agree, I would have let it blow over (placing a formal reprimand on file) and then waited until something else came along and let him go. Now everyone is screaming "They fired him over asking his force to be fit!!!!" when in reality it was probably more to do with other issues.

You could very well be right. The article does suggest there were other reasons--but the article doesn't state what those reasons are. I choose to focus on the "jelly belly" letter and whether that was appropriate--because that is what the article is about and that is the official reason he was fired. I may have chosen the term "overweight" rather than "jelly belly" but otherwise I think it's a perfectly reasonable letter.

In fact, I think physical requirements for police officers should be law. If you can't stay in shape, you get transferred to a desk job or you are fired. The Chief said he wasn't expecting perfect physiques.

However, if you're gonna require them to be in good shape you have to provide the means for them to accomplish that. Free gym membership and time to work out should be the responsibility of the department as well. I wonder if that was offered?

Dakar² · Nov 2, 2006, 02:59 PM

I thought fat people were jolly.

Person Man · Nov 2, 2006, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by probablecause

I may have chosen the term "overweight" rather than "jelly belly" but otherwise I think it's a perfectly reasonable letter.

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that the letter itself was perfectly reasonable.

Now let's say that the person writing the letter is already not well-liked by his staff, and has done things that angered them before.

Now let's say that "Jelly Belly" (which had NO PLACE WHATSOEVER on that document) appeared. That very well could have been the straw that broke the camel's back.

It's GAME OVER as soon as an offensive term was used.

Dark Helmet · Nov 2, 2006, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by Person Man

It's GAME OVER as soon as an offensive term was used.

Ya Jelly Belly is a hugely offensive term. It is right up there with Lard Ass and Merry Christmas.

Person Man · Nov 2, 2006, 05:38 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Ya Jelly Belly is a hugely offensive term. It is right up there with Lard Ass and Merry Christmas.

I'm not saying it's hugely offensive, but the guy apparently has done a lot of things that made him unpopular and then to use terminology which casts being overweight in a negative light when there are better ways to put it may have put them over the edge.

production_coordinator · Nov 2, 2006, 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by probablecause

You could very well be right. The article does suggest there were other reasons--but the article doesn't state what those reasons are. I choose to focus on the "jelly belly" letter and whether that was appropriate--because that is what the article is about and that is the official reason he was fired. I may have chosen the term "overweight" rather than "jelly belly" but otherwise I think it's a perfectly reasonable letter.

In fact, I think physical requirements for police officers should be law. If you can't stay in shape, you get transferred to a desk job or you are fired. The Chief said he wasn't expecting perfect physiques.

However, if you're gonna require them to be in good shape you have to provide the means for them to accomplish that. Free gym membership and time to work out should be the responsibility of the department as well. I wonder if that was offered?

IMHO, the letter didn't seem offensive. Also, he makes an interesting point regarding being a disservice to the community by being an overweight public servant. I would be VERY upset if the police officer that answered my 911 call was unable to climb a few flights of stairs or to catch someone running away (within reason; I don't expect every police officer to be the hulk... just within reason... like the military)

smacintush · Nov 2, 2006, 06:00 PM

Just one more example of how people need to LIGHTEN THE F*CK UP. (no pun intended)

If someone is so offended by this that they are willing to get someone fired they need professional help…or a revolver…because the rest of their life must be a living hell.

::maroma:: · Nov 2, 2006, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by probablecause

In fact, I think physical requirements for police officers should be law. If you can't stay in shape, you get transferred to a desk job or you are fired. The Chief said he wasn't expecting perfect physiques.

However, if you're gonna require them to be in good shape you have to provide the means for them to accomplish that. Free gym membership and time to work out should be the responsibility of the department as well. I wonder if that was offered?

I don't agree that the department must be required to provide the officers with a means to stay in shape. If you pass the physical exam on your way in, its your own personal responsibility to stay in shape. If you choose to get lazy and get fat then why should the department (and in the end, the taxpayer) be required to pay for you to get back in shape.

I'm sorry but I have little sympathy for people who are lazy. And make no mistake, these people are lazy. If they passed the physical exam to get in then they were in shape at one point. They don't have a glandular problem or whatever. They got lazy and fat. Get back in shape or get fired.

Shaddim · Nov 2, 2006, 06:17 PM

Originally Posted by ::maroma::

I don't agree that the department must be required to provide the officers with a means to stay in shape. If you pass the physical exam on your way in, its your own personal responsibility to stay in shape. If you choose to get lazy and get fat then why should the department (and in the end, the taxpayer) be required to pay for you to get back in shape.

I'm sorry but I have little sympathy for people who are lazy. And make no mistake, these people are lazy. If they passed the physical exam to get in then they were in shape at one point. They don't have a glandular problem or whatever. They got lazy and fat. Get back in shape or get fired.

holy sh*t, we agree.

exca1ibur · Nov 2, 2006, 06:30 PM

Originally Posted by Rumor

You can't justify shooting a fleeing suspect because you're too fat to chase them. (I don't mean you as in "you" but in the general sense)

I totally agree with you, I'm just saying that we will probably hear of this as an excuse for an 'incident'.

probablecause · Nov 2, 2006, 06:45 PM

Originally Posted by ::maroma::

I don't agree that the department must be required to provide the officers with a means to stay in shape. If you pass the physical exam on your way in, its your own personal responsibility to stay in shape. If you choose to get lazy and get fat then why should the department (and in the end, the taxpayer) be required to pay for you to get back in shape.

I'm sorry but I have little sympathy for people who are lazy. And make no mistake, these people are lazy. If they passed the physical exam to get in then they were in shape at one point. They don't have a glandular problem or whatever. They got lazy and fat. Get back in shape or get fired.

I guess I was thinking that cops often work extremely hard, double shifts, lots of stress etc. That contributes to over-eating. Many fire departments have gym reimbursements to help keep them in shape and taxpayers foot the bill for that.

Gladwyne Fire Company

Many private companies offer gym memberships as well. It's not an unusual benefit.

Rumor · Nov 2, 2006, 06:48 PM

At least the letter didn't start off as:

To all porkers:

::maroma:: · Nov 2, 2006, 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by probablecause

I guess I was thinking that cops often work extremely hard, double shifts, lots of stress etc. That contributes to over-eating. Many fire departments have gym reimbursements to help keep them in shape and taxpayers foot the bill for that.

Gladwyne Fire Company

Many private companies offer gym memberships as well. It's not an unusual benefit.

I'm all for offering perks like gym memberships or things like that. But requiring a police department to offer such a thing, and if they don't having the overweight officers use that as an excuse for being fat isn't right.

But yeah I agree with you that if the job requires you to be in shape, it would be a nice thing for the officers to have their department offer something like that. But it should be left up to the department to choose whether or not to do such a thing. Its like any other job, the employers offer certain little perks to attract employees.

::maroma:: · Nov 2, 2006, 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by MacNStein

holy sh*t, we agree.

Hmm.. somethin ain't right.

Rumor · Nov 2, 2006, 08:01 PM

A simple fix would be annual physicals. In the military, you gotta take PTs all the time, why not in police force?

Person Man · Nov 2, 2006, 09:46 PM

Originally Posted by Rumor

At least the letter didn't start off as:

To all porkers:

No, but it started off with "Are you a Jelly Belly?"

I realize that it's not a super offensive term, but I can see how it might offend some people. As a doctor, if I called my overweight patients "Jelly Bellies," I'm sure some of them would get hugely offended. Some of you would say those people need to grow a thick skin, but it's still an inappropriate term for someone in an official capacity to use.

I would have titled the memo, "Are you overweight?"

exca1ibur · Nov 2, 2006, 09:53 PM

Originally Posted by Rumor

A simple fix would be annual physicals. In the military, you gotta take PTs all the time, why not in police force?

Budget.

ThinkInsane · Nov 3, 2006, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

The bad thing is when you want to be a cop you only have to pass the physical test ONCE when you join and after that you can get as fat and slow as you like.

That depends on the department. The one I worked for instituted a policy stating that all deputies hired after 1990 had to pass a physical agility test every two years. Deputies hired before 1990 were exempt from the requirement and grandfathered in.

Dark Helmet · Nov 3, 2006, 11:43 AM

http://www.ghostofthefuture.com/imag...lardass-05.jpg

residentEvil · Nov 3, 2006, 12:18 PM

i have watched that movie in ages...that might be on the schedule for tonight.

Rumor · Nov 3, 2006, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by exca1ibur

Budget.

How expensive could it be to have the officers run two miles at the high school track, push ups, sit ups and pull ups?

Shaddim · Nov 3, 2006, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by ::maroma::

Hmm.. somethin ain't right.

I agree.

Not again! Nooooooooo!!!!

chris v · Nov 3, 2006, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by smacintush

Just one more example of how people need to LIGHTEN THE F*CK UP. (no pun intended)

Good, because it was a double entendre.

/humor Nazi

chris v · Nov 3, 2006, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by exca1ibur

Budget.

Maybe they could hold a bake sale.

cSurfr · Nov 3, 2006, 04:02 PM

Welcome to the U.S.A . . . would you like to super size that?

KeyLimePi · Nov 3, 2006, 05:02 PM

Who was that guy that hosted 'Tough Crowd' on Comedy Central? Colin somebody? Anyway, I remember him commenting on a police-beating or something and saying something like "anyone who makes a 45-year-old Irish cop run more than six blocks deserves a good kick in the Blue Devil's cap."

Todd Madson · Nov 3, 2006, 05:52 PM

Did anyone else get an add for nutri-systems right next to the news article?

It had a thing about a woman who lost 76 pounds!

Unintentional hilarity!

Kerrigan · Nov 3, 2006, 06:18 PM

I don't trust fat people with squinty eyes, and I'm prejudiced against fat people who walk in slow, zig-zag paths, making it difficult to get around them.

I could start a new thread about slow, zig-zagging people in general, but I won't. ;-*

Rumor · Nov 3, 2006, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

I don't trust fat people with squinty eyes, and I'm prejudiced against fat people who walk in slow, zig-zag paths, making it difficult to get around them.

I could start a new thread about slow, zig-zagging people in general, but I won't. ;-*

This should be in the "You know what grinds my gears?" thread.

turtle777 · Nov 3, 2006, 07:23 PM

Originally Posted by Todd Madson

Did anyone else get an add for nutri-systems right next to the news article?

It had a thing about a woman who lost 76 pounds!

Unintentional hilarity!

Well, unintentional ? I doubt it.

The Google Ads hampstor just performed its duty when reading "get in shape" in the title

-t

PB2K · Nov 4, 2006, 04:55 AM

JoshuaZ · Nov 4, 2006, 11:17 AM

turtle777 · Nov 4, 2006, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by PB2K

on their way to

Originally Posted by JoshuaZ

-t