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iPhone 3G announced - Thinner, metal buttons, better audio, black plastic back, GPS (Page 3)
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Originally Posted by voodoo
It probably will function with USB 1.1 or lower. However its max velocity is 1.5 MB per sec (theoretically) so it will take you something like 2 hours to fill 8 GBs through that.
Data rate goes down to about 300-400kB per sec on USB, so it might take longer even.
So, you'll be able to 'use' it, it will be 'functional'.
I doubt it - the iPod touch won't work *at all* over USB 1.1
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What about a Bluetooth iPhone remote control? Does such a device exist?
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Originally Posted by ort888
What about a Bluetooth iPhone remote control? Does such a device exist?
No, unless someone hacked one together.
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I hope there are modifications to that "required data plan." AT&T doesn't even have 2G coverage for 70% of my county, and absolutely no 3G coverage. And no plans for any as far as I can tell. (We live in the mountains.) Hell -- even my house doesn't get an AT&T wireless signal. I have to forward my calls to the home phone when I leave work.
It would be ludicrous to make someone like me pay $30/mo. for data that I would almost never use. I would throw a fit in the store only because the local store -- of all places -- should be well aware of the stupidity. (Why the fk do they even have a store here?)
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Originally Posted by philm
I guess the idea is that you don't need to also sign up for a $1400(*) contract for the latter though.
(*rough calculation in my head)
According to Apple service, You can buy without activating AT&T service!
I think new iPod Touchs will be announced soon!
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Even if you can buy without activating, you're stuck. The iPod functions don't work unless activated.
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Ha! I was looking at that map thinking the dark orange spots represented 3G network coverage. Then I click on the link you provided and read that the 3G coverage is represented by the small blue specs sprinkled across the map.
Yikes!
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Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES
Is this 3G coverage a joke? Many of you better stop getting so excited as 3G iPhone or not you probibly can't even get 3G based on this shitty coverage.
You seem to forget that that map would be pretty much covered in blue in Europe, Japan, Korea, etc. In order to really sell the iPhone outside of the US Apple had to have 3G in there. Customers abroad are excited and rightly so. The problem here is 3G coverage in the US, not the iPhone.
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There's no question that Verizon, Sprint and Alltel have been infinitely more committed to expanding 3G network coverage than AT&T. Now that Alltel's vast rural EV-DO coverage is being coupled with Verizon's, there's no question who the market leader in wireless broadband will be... unfortunately, Verizon apparently wasn't willing to play ball with Apple in the beginning, so we have at least 4 more years of AT&T exclusivity.
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Pair of iPhones
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3G coverage takes more hardware, so it's going to be concentrated in areas where more 3G users are. As usage grows, carriers (including AT&T) will follow by expanding their coverage areas. This isn't a charity thing, remember; the carriers want to make piles of money off of us gadget addicts, and they're not going to invest money if they don't see a pretty sure thing in their return.
The other carriers have touted their 3G coverage areas, but they don't mention their crappy coverage for other phone types. I have stayed with AT&T because there are areas I spend time in that have NO other coverage at all but that AT&T covers very well. I'm not suggesting sainthood for AT&T or anything, but they do provide broader, more "complete" coverage than any other carrier in the Southwest (and most of the rest of the U.S.).
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Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES
Wouldn't that represent a very large chunk of the population? Plus, the map will only expand with time.
Similarly, Canada's 3G coverage is "only":
Victoria
Whistler
Kelowna
Greater Vancouver area (all the way out to Chilliwack)
Calgary
Edmonton
Fort McMurray
Saskatoon
Regina
Winterpeg
Durham
York
Toronto
Peel
Halton
Waterloo/Kitchener
Hamilton
Niagara
Guelph
London
Windsor
Barrie
Sudbury
Kingston
Ottawa
Montreal
Trois-Rivieres
Quebec City
Chicoutimi
Halifax
Moncton
However, that's a large chunk of the population, and are pretty much the only areas I'd really want personally anyway for the time being, and as I said before, 3G support will only expand with time.
It kind of reminds me of the comments I heard back in the 90s when I got my first GSM phone. People said GSM was no good because the coverage wasn't anywhere near as good as analogue. Well, I got a GSM phone with analogue backup, and since I lived in a metropolitain area, I used my analogue attachment maybe 0.1% of the time. With the iPhone it's even easier, since it's 3G and 2G in the same phone, including both HSDPA and EDGE built-in, with auto-fallback.
In terms of actual technology, getting the iPhone 3G is a complete no-brainer.
I think the biggest barrier is the cost of the data plans. Here's hoping for July 11, when the plans for Fido and Rogers are announced.
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AT&T's iPhone shift to cost up to $1 billion a year - MarketWatch
Cowen & Co analyst Tom Watts referred to the strategy as a "billion-dollar baby," saying that's how much it will cost AT&T to subsidize the device this year.
Apple's IPhone Must Avoid The Razr Trap
The maker of a hot-selling revolutionary phone cuts its price to spur more mass-market demand.
Sound familiar? That happened to the Razr, and while the move spurred sales for a while, Motorola (MOT) couldn't duplicate the success because it failed to innovate. Motorola's stock is trading now near multiyear lows as the company searches for a new growth driver.
While no one is predicting such a dramatic reversal for Apple Inc. (AAPL) and its iPhone, many are noting that the most revolutionary change to the latest iPhone is its reduced pricing - and even that doesn't represent a big shift in an industry long dependent on carrier subsidies.
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Originally Posted by Eug
Wouldn't that represent a very large chunk of the population? Plus, the map will only expand with time.
Similarly, Canada's 3G coverage is "only":
I wonder how the more southwestern parts of Ontario will fare with 3G coverage in the short term. I notice that Windsor isn't on the list, nor is London... That's not an insubstantial area. There are lots of businesses there (doing international business, too) and they would probably benefit from having 3G coverage...(wouldn't we all?) When I look at the frankly small "metro areas" here in Texas that have 3G coverage (like Hondo, Uvalde and Pearsall, all southwest of San Antonio), I have to wonder whether the carriers in Ontario are just behind the curve or whether something else is going on.
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Originally Posted by Eug
Apple's IPhone Must Avoid The Razr Trap
The maker of a hot-selling revolutionary phone cuts its price to spur more mass-market demand.
Sound familiar? That happened to the Razr, and while the move spurred sales for a while, Motorola (MOT) couldn't duplicate the success because it failed to innovate. Motorola's stock is trading now near multiyear lows as the company searches for a new growth driver.
While no one is predicting such a dramatic reversal for Apple Inc. (AAPL) and its iPhone, many are noting that the most revolutionary change to the latest iPhone is its reduced pricing - and even that doesn't represent a big shift in an industry long dependent on carrier subsidies.
Wow, that article is dumb.
The iPhone is about as far from the Razr as possible. And they just added third party apps. That is the really big news that seems to be getting downplayed. How much innovation do they expect in a year?
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Originally Posted by Simon
Customers abroad are excited and rightly so. The problem here is 3G coverage in the US, not the iPhone.
Ya well duh. Point is most of the consumers are in the US and the coverage is shitty.
In canada all the major cities are covered but the difference to the US is that most Canadians live in 3 major cities. You Americans are sprinkled all over the place and your coverage outside of the cities is poor.
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Originally Posted by ort888
Wow, that article is dumb.
The iPhone is about as far from the Razr as possible. And they just added third party apps. That is the really big news that seems to be getting downplayed. How much innovation do they expect in a year?
I think the point also is that back when the RAZR came out it was a luxury item as it cost almost $1000 a phone. Then Motorola subsidized it to all hell so it was selling in 20 different shitty colours for $50 so suddenly it was selling like mad and every Paris HIlton wannabe 16 year old girl had one. Motorola got comfortable with this one product slightly updating it and coming out with new colours while the rest of the industry was inventing new products and not just riding a wave.
Just seeing a Razr makes me sick because of its cheap image.
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Originally Posted by Eug
Apple's IPhone Must Avoid The Razr Trap
The maker of a hot-selling revolutionary phone cuts its price to spur more mass-market demand.
Sound familiar? That happened to the Razr, and while the move spurred sales for a while, Motorola (MOT) couldn't duplicate the success because it failed to innovate. Motorola's stock is trading now near multiyear lows as the company searches for a new growth driver.
While no one is predicting such a dramatic reversal for Apple Inc. (AAPL) and its iPhone, many are noting that the most revolutionary change to the latest iPhone is its reduced pricing - and even that doesn't represent a big shift in an industry long dependent on carrier subsidies.
I can see the comparison between the RAZR and the iPhone, but I can't see Apple making the same mistakes as Motorola. Over the last 10 years they have had the iMac and iPod which have innovated, updated and changed over time, and stayed popular. No reason to think Apple can't do the same with the iPhone.
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Originally Posted by ort888
Wow, that article is dumb.
Indeed, it's a stupid article. The overall premise that the iPhone became cheaper is plain wrong. The way people pay for the iPhone has changed. But overall it costs roughly the same as it did before.
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The article makes perfect sense. Apple is doing exactly what Motorola did. However, it also says that Apple is unlikely to suffer the same Razr trap, because Apple has a better history of innovation and is ahead of the curve in 2008 even with the old iPhone. ie. It's a warning but not a doomsday prediction.
Sounds about right to me.
Originally Posted by ghporter
I wonder how the more southwestern parts of Ontario will fare with 3G coverage in the short term. I notice that Windsor isn't on the list, nor is London... That's not an insubstantial area. There are lots of businesses there (doing international business, too) and they would probably benefit from having 3G coverage...(wouldn't we all?) When I look at the frankly small "metro areas" here in Texas that have 3G coverage (like Hondo, Uvalde and Pearsall, all southwest of San Antonio), I have to wonder whether the carriers in Ontario are just behind the curve or whether something else is going on.
Windsor is on the list, and so is London. See my list above, and the picture below:
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Deficiencies in the iPhone:
Camera <-- No comment, because I'm not sure how good Apple's 2 MP camera is.
Video Capture in the camera <-- A bit of a drag
Video calling cam <-- I wasn't expecting this either. How many people video call anyway?
Cut / copy / paste <-- Seems like an odd thing to leave out. Kinda annoying.
Stereo Bluetooth A2DP <-- Doesn't bother me really, but I know it bothers others.
MMS <-- Meh.
32 GB <-- Doesn't bother me, as I want a 16 GB model, but 32 GB will come by next year for sure for those who want it.
Replaceable battery <-- I didn't at all expect it, and Apple has that cheap battery replacement program. Not ideal but OK.
Voice dialing <-- Why leave this out? It's not the end of the world, but it would be helpful in the car.
Landscape keyboard <-- Not a huge deal.
No route directions? <-- What's the point of TomTom's software then? Or am I misunderstanding this?
No flash support <-- Is the hardware still too underpowered for this?
No tethering <-- Why not? The carriers could just have separate tethering plans.
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Voice commands along with MSS will probible come days after the app store launches, same with copy past.
The current iPhone cam is pretty damn good as long as you hold still and there is enough light. They are already 3rd party replacement apps for the camera that allow you to zoom and such. There is also a video recording app so expect an official one on the app store in no time also.
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Camera <-- The Apple camera sucks.
Video Capture in the camera <-- iMovie for the iPhone? Sounds great. But nope.
Video calling cam <-- meh. I could see some people doing it, but doesn't do much for me.
Cut / copy / paste <-- Huge hole here.
Stereo Bluetooth A2DP <-- Would be nice but not a game-breaker.
MMS <-- Another big area lacking. Same with similies in sms/chat. Another sign of Apple gearing for the business people and not the masses.
32 GB <-- Would be nice to have a couple of movies at a time.
Replaceable battery <-- Extended battery life works for me.
Voice dialing <-- A nice feature but not a game-breaker.
Landscape keyboard <-- A travesty that Apple doesn't do this.
No route directions? <-- Software on the way for this?
No flash support <-- Limits the surfing experience.
No tethering <-- I can see where it would be big but not so much for me.
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Video Capture in the camera <-- iMovie for the iPhone? Sounds great. But nope.
No, I wasn't meaning full-fledged iMovie-ish stuff. Just the ability for the camera to do quick video captures in QT format or something. It's a common feature with camera phones (and cameras of course).
Anyways, the biggest negatives for me are the lack of cut/copy/paste and flash support. However, I can understand the latter if it's a hardware issue. I rarely use MMS, but still, it'd be nice to be able to receive them from other people who do use MMS. (eg. I just bought a new antique coffee table. Before I went to check it out, the store owner sent me a pic via MMS.)
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Originally Posted by Randman
32 GB <-- Would be nice to have a couple of movies at a time.
A couple movies? What size movies are you putting on that thing? A full 2 hour movie in a format that is perfectly fine for the iPhone comes in at around 1GB (give or take a bit).
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I have a 8GB iPhone now, 7.3 workable space.
I have 798mb available.
326 songs, 4 videos (Anthony Bourdain's No Reservations x3 and a ripped copy (which I bought of Justice League: New Frontier), 1,530 photos.
So, at 1GB for a movie, I'd have to remove something to add one. If I were flying cross-country, or internationally, I'd have to move a lot of stuff to get a few on there.
16GB would be nice.
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Originally Posted by Eug
No, I wasn't meaning full-fledged iMovie-ish stuff. Just the ability for the camera to do quick video captures in QT format or something. It's a common feature with camera phones (and cameras of course).
Same. It was nice getting video grabs on my old Nokia N95 (not available in the US). Video blogging/podcasting as well. I'd take the camera with video available but not to have both hurts.
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Your doing something wrong. On my 8 gig Nano, I currently have...
609 Songs
9 TV Shows (mostly 22 minute shows)
44 Podcasts (many video, but pretty short)
and 1135 Photos
and I have 517 megs free.
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The 3 TV shows are 50-minutes and the cartoon is 90. I count podcasts as songs on the iPhone. Also, about 10 of the "songs" are actually audiobooks so they run longer and are large size than your normal song. Nothing earth-shattering but as you can see, having less than 1GB of spare space doesn't give you much breathing room. A 16GB iPhone would fix that.
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Luckily the 16 GB iPhone will be out in 4 weeks.
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The 3G coverage map reminds me of the map showing the 2004 election results.
AT&T HAS A LIBERAL BIAS! THEY ONLY WANT DEMOCRATS TO HAVE 3G!
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Originally Posted by ort888
Your doing something wrong. On my 8 gig Nano, I currently have...
609 Songs
9 TV Shows (mostly 22 minute shows)
44 Podcasts (many video, but pretty short)
and 1135 Photos
and I have 517 megs free.
Ya I am close to the same numbers. I also have a shitload of pictures on it and I am not even close to filling the 8 gigs. I'll get the 16 next time around but I don't really need it.
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Originally Posted by Eug
Windsor is on the list, and so is London.
So they are. I must have missed seeing them earlier. Those coverage areas look kind of...close in? Not very "metropolitan" compared to other areas—like Uvalde.
I'm trying to picture someone on the CN between Toronto and Windsor, who's trying to use his iPhone. "Got it!...No wait....OK.....Nope..."
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Originally Posted by ghporter
So they are. I must have missed seeing them earlier. Those coverage areas look kind of...close in? Not very "metropolitan" compared to other areas—like Uvalde.
I'm trying to picture someone on the CN between Toronto and Windsor, who's trying to use his iPhone. "Got it!...No wait....OK.....Nope..."
Those smaller areas are specifically for 3G coverage, not overall Rogers coverage. Outside that you won't get 3G, but GSM should work fine in that corridor. The train also has WiFi, although you have to pay extra for it (and their WiFi sucks).
That's why the iPhone 3G is nice. 3G is faster, but 2G is still OK, and the iPhone has both.
(
Last edited by Eug; Jun 11, 2008 at 05:16 PM.
)
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Originally Posted by ort888
The 3G coverage map reminds me of the map showing the 2004 election results.
The map reminds me of AT&T's GSM coverage back in 2002 when I bought my Sony Ericsson T68i.
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Originally Posted by Eug
That's why the iPhone 3G is nice. 3G is faster, but 2G is still OK, and the iPhone has both.
You are the same person who has been complaining how EDGE too slow and that main reason you refused to get an iPhone aren't you? Now edge is "Ok"?
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Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES
You are the same person who has been complaining how EDGE too slow and that main reason you refused to get an iPhone aren't you? Now edge is "Ok"?
Nope. The #1 reason is because I didn't want to hack a $600 phone.
I refused to get an iPhone last year for 3 main reasons.
1) I didn't want to hack it, esp. considering it was initially $600. The price dropped later, but I still didn't want a hacked iPhone.
2) While EDGE is OK as a backup, it certainly isn't ideal. My next phone was definitely going to support 3G.
3) I wanted 16 GB.
As for data speeds, like I said with my 1st GSM phone, 0.1% of the usage was on my analogue backup. Similarly, I would expect that for data, the vast majority of my usage with the iPhone 3G would be on 3G since I live in Toronto. However, if I'm on the train travelling to Montreal, EDGE would be OK as a fallback out in the middle of nowhere.
P.S. There is still one more barrier... and that is the overall cost. What really worries me is the $70/mo AT&T charge, cuz if it's $70 for them, I could expect Rogers/Fido to force us to $80/mo, and in Canada it's for 3 years not 2. If that's the case I may just say forget it.
OTOH, if Rogers/Fido has a super-high-priced data plan, but gives us a reasonable voice plan, I would still consider the iPhone. I'm screwed for the 3Gness, but at least I'd have an non-hacked 16 GB unit.
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Originally Posted by Randman
Camera <-- The Apple camera sucks.
I would love to see apple do like Sony Ericsson and have a *camera* on the back side of the phone, but I don't know if they'd ever do something like that.
The K700 was such a great phone.
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Originally Posted by Eug
Nope. The #1 reason is because I didn't want to hack a $600 phone.
Yes those are valid reasons also but you did post on many many ocations and say in person that edge is piss slow and you once downloaded 100 megs on a phone in 1 day somehow.
And luckily it turns out all the people that unlocked their $600 had no problems. It might actually retain its value over the old ones as they were sold without contract and are unlocked.
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1. can i use iphone version 1 to have sdk 2.0? is it like an updatable patch.. so i can use it on my iphone that i bought before july 11
2. is it for free?
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simple but nice
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Originally Posted by Brien
The K700 was such a great phone.
Except for the camera cover constantly sliding open and draining the battery while you carry it in your pocket.
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Originally Posted by samsontan
1. can i use iphone version 1 to have sdk 2.0? is it like an updatable patch.. so i can use it on my iphone that i bought before july 11
Yes. You will be able to run iPhone 2.0 on the 2.5G iPhone.
For the iPhone, yes. It will be $9.95 for the iPod touch.
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Forum Regular
Join Date: Sep 2006
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the only difference between the current and older iphone would be:
3G functions - 2 times faster browsing &
longer battery life?
half priced!~
are there anything else?
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simple but nice
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Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
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real GPS built in
better audio speakers
flush earphone jack
and the possibly of better reception (no metal on the back)
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Slick shoes?! Are you crazy?!
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Clinically Insane
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Caught in a web of deceit.
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Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES
Yes those are valid reasons also but you did post on many many ocations and say in person that edge is piss slow and you once downloaded 100 megs on a phone in 1 day somehow.
I've never called EDGE piss slow. However, I did say it was comparatively slow and I didn't want to pay good money for a phone limited to EDGE, when I already knew a 3G version is coming within a year, which I wouldn't have to hack either. The 16 GB part was just a guess, but it was an easy guess, and one that turned out to be true.
That said, had the original iPhone been EDGE-only, but didn't require hacking (ie. full warranty) and was only $200, I might just have bought one.
As for the speed, it's sort of like WiFi. 802.11b is usually OK for general surfing, but I definitely wouldn't want my laptop limited to 802.11b, unless it was as functional antique or something (like my Cube), or it was very inexpensive.
P.S. The 100 MB in one day was tethering... on GPRS if you can believe it. Now that was really, really painful.
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES
And luckily it turns out all the people that unlocked their $600 had no problems.
That's a rather optimistic view of it. A few people out there (including one you know IIRC) ended up with bricks, at least temporarily. Plus, people were always behind the curve with new updates. Not the end of the world, but a pain nonetheless. A couple of colleagues at work initially tried to get me to get a hacked iPhone, but then changed their tune after having to rehack their phone after every point update. They were able to do it, but were quite annoyed with the process.
It might actually retain its value over the old ones as they were sold without contract and are unlocked.
So what are you doing with yours? How much do you realistic think you can sell your $600+$100 phone for?
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Clinically Insane
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Caught in a web of deceit.
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iPhone apps capped at 2 GB.
2 GB sounds reasonable for most apps, although it could affect a few outliers. It shouldn't be a problem for the TomTom software though, since IIRC most maps are well under 1 GB.
The max price for an app is $999.99, but I doubt I'd want to pay that kind of money for ANY app on my phone, unless it cooked my meals, did my laundry and cleaned my house twice a week.
EDIT:
After writing that it hit me just how far we've come... I remember when our dept. spent something like $20000 for a desktop computer that had 2 GB RAM. This was for hardcore database crunching. Now we're talking about 2 GB (database or other app) limits for $200 phones. No, it's not RAM, but you get the idea.
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Professional Poster
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
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Heh, that means I can get bigger apps on my phone than I can download on XBox Live.
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All glory to the hypnotoad.
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Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Nov 2007
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The iPhone is an awesome piece of hardware, period.
However, there are a few things to remember:
1. Apple and AT&T are corporations, thus they have a obligation to make as much money as possible.
2. As with every piece of new technology, it will gain new features and functions over time, and it would not be in their best interests to release them all at once, thereby keeping people upgrading their now "outdated" models.
2.5: Thankfully, Apple has a good record regarding the usability of
"outdated" models.
3. With the addition of third-party application support, the possibilities are practically endless. If there is not an application you want, someone is probably working on it, or, if you have time, you can learn to make it yourself.
4. There is no need for the iPhone to replace a camera or a video recorder, its an iPod/phone/internet capable device, not an electronic swiss army knife. . . but THAT would be a stupendous goal to strive for.
5. Also, a little does of reality: For how many thousands of years have humans survived without the iPhone, electricity, GPS navigation, etc. ??? So I consider us all very lucky just to have the privilege of access to such things, access many people still to not have to this day, not to mention basic necessities such as food and shelter!
___
In any case, the features I am most excited about are Asian Language Support and 3G !!! 乾杯!! However, I still have no NEED for an iPhone, thus until my current cell phone and iPod die, I will just quietly bide my time watching the iPhone gain more functions and usability.
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Posting Junkie
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Originally Posted by moep
Except for the camera cover constantly sliding open and draining the battery while you carry it in your pocket.
And the joystick being an unreliable piece of ****, and the keyboard being so mushy, and the first six or so versions of the software being buggy as hell... ick.
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Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Cape Cod, MA
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Yet another n00b question from sek...
To make use of WiFi do I need a WiFi card (100$ from sonnet) or would any old wireless router do?
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