[Kerrigan]

Boldly going nowhere: Nasa ends plan to put man back on Moon - Times Online

Nasa has begun to wind down construction of the rockets and spacecraft that were to have taken astronauts back to the Moon — effectively dismantling the US human spaceflight programme despite a congressional ban on its doing so.

Another Obama "accomplishment."

I'm astonished that Obama has been able to destroy the US in such a short period of time.

[dcmacdaddy]

With all the problems going on down here on planet earth is the loss of a lunar exploration capability that big a deal?

I don't think so. There is plenty for NASA to do still with its remote earth-sensing capabilities and astronomical observatories. Think of what the James Webb telescope will be doing or our work with the ISS; NASA will still be doing plenty of space exploration, just closer to "home".

In short, I am not bothered by this decision. In fact, I think it was the right decision in light of the current financial straits in which we find our country. We need to cut back spending on everything.

[turtle777]

Actually, I sort of agree.

In times of Budget deficits of $ 2 Trillion and more, we just can't afford this.

We need to cut back all kinds of things.

Of course, where I won't agree is that Obama will use the savings from this to dump the money into some more bottomless government pit that won;t do any good.

-t

[Kerrigan]

Obama has vastly increased the size of the government. His "stimulus" (pork) bill alone was what, half a trillion dollars?

Where is this money going?

According to the article, the Constellation project was cut because they fell short by $3bn.

I guess that building upon America's greatest engineering feat just wasn't as important as boosting welfare, handouts, entitlements, earmarks, and various other desiderata that are dragging down our economy?

Again, where is the money going?

Evidently, it will be going to the Russians, since we will shortly have no way of transporting astronauts into space.

[turtle777]

I don't disagree, there is huge waste and fraud going on with taxpayers money.

However, even IF Obama cut back on all waste and abuse, we'd still need to cut back more because we have to pay off our past debt at some point.

-t

[Kerrigan]

I agree that debt is a massive problem -- and let's face it, at this point, it's almost insurmountable.

But if Obama's going to be as profligate as he is, I wish he would at least throw enough money to Nasa so that we could have, at the very least, a way to get men into orbit. When the geopolitical situation worsens (as it will), having the capacity to send a guy into space might come in handy.

[Snow-i]

Not to mention all the practical technological advances that the space program provides.

Goodbye future! Hello welfare state!

[chabig]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan 

I guess that building upon America's greatest engineering feat just wasn't as important as boosting welfare, handouts, entitlements, earmarks, and various other desiderata that are dragging down our economy?

I think that about says it all!

[lpkmckenna]

Aside from the liberal-conservative blather, many scientists for years have argued that manned space exploration is a waste of money. I agree. There's really no value in putting people on the moon or Mars.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan 

Obama has vastly increased the size of the government. His "stimulus" (pork) bill alone was what, half a trillion dollars?

Where is this money going?

Ummm, the vast increase in the size of the government was courtesy of GWB, and his start of the Permanent War Economy.

According to the article, the Constellation project was cut because they fell short by $3bn.

Which is chump change when one considers what we're spending on foolish wars.

I guess that building upon America's greatest engineering feat just wasn't as important as boosting welfare, handouts, entitlements, earmarks, and various other desiderata that are dragging down our economy?

You should really do some research on welfare and entitlements. You'd find that they've gone down significantly since William Jefferson Clinton (a Democrat) enacted welfare reform while he was in office.

Again, where is the money going?

Evidently, it will be going to the Russians, since we will shortly have no way of transporting astronauts into space.

It's going to Blackwater, the Carlyle Group, Halliburton and a few others that escape me at the moment, to perpetuate the war economy. Gullible, and stupid, people need their false sense of security against those pesky terrorists. They make better headlines than the car crashes and numerous other causes of death that kill far more Americans in a day than died on 9/11 (not to denigrate those who died, but reality is sometimes hard to swallow).

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy 

With all the problems going on down here on planet earth is the loss of a lunar exploration capability that big a deal?

I don't think so. There is plenty for NASA to do still with its remote earth-sensing capabilities and astronomical observatories. Think of what the James Webb telescope will be doing or our work with the ISS; NASA will still be doing plenty of space exploration, just closer to "home".

In short, I am not bothered by this decision. In fact, I think it was the right decision in light of the current financial straits in which we find our country. We need to cut back spending on everything.

We need to keep a keen eye on maintaining a competitive edge in utilizing whatever resources and opportunities the moon may provide through technological advancement, but there's no reason we need to walk around up there to do it at this point. Particularly considering the cost.

I have no problem with this move either.

[ghporter]

Interestingly, the Apollo project generated quite a lot of economic expansion. And in fields you may not even think of, too. Prime contractor for the Apollo environmental suits? International Latex, parent company of Playtex. Many non-aerospace companies went from tiny to powerful, and the integrated circuit went from "hey, that's interesting" to a huge deal. Exploration helps the economy. And as the Apollo program is said to have cost every tax payer about 5¢ each a day, I think it was well worth it.

[BadKosh]

Yeah, Thanks obama for getting rid of thousands of tech jobs, only to replace them with temp census jobs. I wonder how proud you libs are with how you voted last time.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Interestingly, the Apollo project generated quite a lot of economic expansion. And in fields you may not even think of, too. Prime contractor for the Apollo environmental suits? International Latex, parent company of Playtex. Many non-aerospace companies went from tiny to powerful, and the integrated circuit went from "hey, that's interesting" to a huge deal. Exploration helps the economy. And as the Apollo program is said to have cost every tax payer about 5¢ each a day, I think it was well worth it.

The question remains whether this is merely correlation, or causation.

So far, I have not seen any shred of evidence that government spending really stimulates the economy in a healthy, sustainable way.

Look at what's happening now. It's absolutely clear that this so called "Keynesian multiplier" is a big government hoax.

-t

[PB2K]

I hope the cancellation of the trip to the moon opens America's eyes to the fact that you can't keep borrowing forever.

[andi*pandi]

Had he fought to keep the space program people would be complaining that he was wasting money. No win.

[The Final Dakar]

This is probably the most conservatives I will ever see supporting NASA and space exploration.

Personally, I find his "pragmatism" on this subject mystifying.

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Interestingly, the Apollo project generated quite a lot of economic expansion. And in fields you may not even think of, too. Prime contractor for the Apollo environmental suits? International Latex, parent company of Playtex. Many non-aerospace companies went from tiny to powerful, and the integrated circuit went from "hey, that's interesting" to a huge deal. Exploration helps the economy. And as the Apollo program is said to have cost every tax payer about 5¢ each a day, I think it was well worth it.

I would agree that it was worth it then. However, while going to the moon now would still be a significant engineering challenge, it's not like we're going to have to invent anything fundamentally new to do it, as we did the first time around.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey 

I would agree that it was worth it then. However, while going to the moon now would still be a significant engineering challenge, it's not like we're going to have to invent anything fundamentally new to do it, as we did the first time around.

Well, IMO, we should spend the money on getting the US more energy independent from oil.

-t

[Shaddim]

It's about time someone killed it off. If we ever get our economy sorted out we can try again, but for now it's too impractical. I have to give Barry kudos for this one.

[BadKosh]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey 

I would agree that it was worth it then. However, while going to the moon now would still be a significant engineering challenge, it's not like we're going to have to invent anything fundamentally new to do it, as we did the first time around.

Wrong. We aren't going to build new Saturn 5's but use large solid fuel systems. We should be testing the new Mars stuff on the moon first.

[BadKosh]

Originally Posted by PB2K 

I hope the cancellation of the trip to the moon opens America's eyes to the fact that you can't keep borrowing forever.

Even the prospect of losing power in congress hasn't stopped the Libs from their tax n spend way. They will never learn.

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

Wrong. We aren't going to build new Saturn 5's but use large solid fuel systems. We should be testing the new Mars stuff on the moon first.

I'm ignorant about the technology involved, but to me, that sounds like the kind of engineering challenge I described.

[finboy]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

Yeah, Thanks obama for getting rid of thousands of tech jobs, only to replace them with temp census jobs. I wonder how proud you libs are with how you voted last time.

Sounds like the fun never ends in the Obama White House. Gonna take over the space industry (wait, I mean "encourage private solutions" -- whatever), then prop up the publishing industry (so they'll be beholden to whom?) and then determine what bandwidth we get to use on the Web.

"What's next?" should be their new bumper sticker.

[TheoCryst]

Originally Posted by finboy 

Gonna take over the space industry (wait, I mean "encourage private solutions" -- whatever)

Wait, what? How is cutting back a government program and making room for private industry even remotely similar to "taking over the industry?"

(For the record, I don't agree with his decision, though I do understand why Constellation, the endless money-pit that it was, needed to be axed.)

[hyteckit]

Haha...

Obama sucks.

Wanting to cut spending and privatize space exploration. What a commie.

[OAW]

It seems to me that with the retirement of the Shuttle program the first priority needs to be development of a new, safe, reliable, and cost effective vehicle to put people into low-earth orbit. Seeing as how we won't have one in just a few months. There's this old saying about "crawling before you walk, and walking before you run" that comes to mind. I mean ... I'm just saying.

OAW

[BadKosh]

So those leaving NASA or it's subcontractors won't have jobs. In the mean time there is no plan to finish the next generation of space vehicle. The expertise will be lost. Planning further out than an hour past the last nap seems to be something the libs can't do. Our moron president has no scope.

[Big Mac]

Well at least President Obama has shown he's capable of cutting some features of government!

[hyteckit]

I say lets nationalize oil exploration.

Creates lots of jobs and save Americans money on what the pay for oil.

It's a security issue.

Government funded Space exploration - No
Government funded Oil exploration - Yes

NASA is a bunch of global warming, fund grabbing, commie liberals anyway.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

So those leaving NASA or it's subcontractors won't have jobs. In the mean time there is no plan to finish the next generation of space vehicle. The expertise will be lost. Planning further out than an hour past the last nap seems to be something the libs can't do. Our moron president has no scope.

You mean all that expertise in building space-reliant devices will be lost? Hmm, I don't recall Obama putting an end to any earth-sensing missions. Or did you think those satellites and space telescopes don't require special expertise to build.

I think you are letting your anti-Obama attitude get the best of you. Eliminating manned space missions in no way eliminates all space missions. There is, and will continue to be, plenty of stuff for NASA to do and plenty of need for expertise in the field of space exploration.

[dcmacdaddy]

Here is just one example of what NASA does that is of great benefit that has nothing to do with manned space-flight.
http://forums.macnn.com/95/political...es-huge-space/


Here is another one.
BBC News - Pan-Starrs telescope begins operations to hunt asteroids

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Actually, I sort of agree.

In times of Budget deficits of $ 2 Trillion and more, we just can't afford this.

We need to cut back all kinds of things.

Of course, where I won't agree is that Obama will use the savings from this to dump the money into some more bottomless government pit that won;t do any good.

-t

I do agree that in times like these, we can't afford things like going back to the moon. However, the technology that we've garnered from space exploration over the decades has been invaluable, and it's sad to see that cut off. Oh well.

[Kerrigan]

Maybe Obama will shut down the Air Force next and privatize it. Obama is such a genius!

[ghporter]

Funny thought: during the 1960s, manned space exploration provided hope in a very turbulent world. Odd that someone who ran on a slogan of "hope," who is old enough to remember the manned landings on the moon, would miss that little irony.

[BadKosh]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy 

You mean all that expertise in building space-reliant devices will be lost? Hmm, I don't recall Obama putting an end to any earth-sensing missions. Or did you think those satellites and space telescopes don't require special expertise to build.

I think you are letting your anti-Obama attitude get the best of you. Eliminating manned space missions in no way eliminates all space missions. There is, and will continue to be, plenty of stuff for NASA to do and plenty of need for expertise in the field of space exploration.

Currently their are no long range plans for such. Private companies will still launch communications birds, the Russians will launch people to the space station, but a large portion of folks who were gearing up to test and improve the next gen lifters and related systems will be going away. NASA has no direction.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

I'm trying to sort this out in my head.

The Facts:

1. NASA scientists who exist at the forefront of climate change science are frauds/liars/incompetent.

2. Obama is a commie socialist intent on ruining America with mountains of public debt flowing from the Public Teat.

3. NASA is a large part of the Public Teat.

4. Obama cancels a mission which is far over its already-considerable budget and has few prospects for contributing anything meaningful to our society.*

5. ?!?!?!

6. ...NASA is terribly important and Obama is ruining America!

7. BadKosh works for NASA. Just sayin.


Anyways... this thread makes no sense. Obama finally said "cut." Woohoo.

greg



*Sorry Glen, but Apollo happened in the context of the Cold War. It was an ideological battle. You weren't just working for some company; you were working for America, beating the commies every time you put on a lab suit. That all-important ideological component no longer exists.

[The Final Dakar]

If only Al-Queda was trying to get to the Moon.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton 

I'm trying to sort this out in my head.

The Facts:

1. NASA scientists who exist at the forefront of climate change science are frauds/liars/incompetent.

2. Obama is a commie socialist intent on ruining America with mountains of public debt flowing from the Public Teat.

3. NASA is a large part of the Public Teat.

4. Obama cancels a mission which is far over its already-considerable budget and has few prospects for contributing anything meaningful to our society.*

5. ?!?!?!

6. ...NASA is terribly important and Obama is ruining America!

7. BadKosh works for NASA. Just sayin.


Anyways... this thread makes no sense. Obama finally said "cut." Woohoo.

greg



*Sorry Glen, but Apollo happened in the context of the Cold War. It was an ideological battle. You weren't just working for some company; you were working for America, beating the commies every time you put on a lab suit. That all-important ideological component no longer exists.

Yep, there's much contradiction with prior rants going on in this thread. I guess NASA's rocket scientists and it's climate scientists must be required to subscribe to different political agendas.

[osiris]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

If only Al-Queda was trying to get to the Moon.

Yep, we'd have hotels and whorehouses up there in about a month, no friggin doubt.

[BadKosh]

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton 

I'm trying to sort this out in my head.

The Facts:

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton 

1. NASA scientists who exist at the forefront of climate change science are frauds/liars/incompetent.

As well as the other frauds who got caught tampering with the data.

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton 

2. Obama is a commie socialist intent on ruining America with mountains of public debt flowing from the Public Teat.

As seen on TV every day.

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton 

3. NASA is a large part of the Public Teat.

WRONG. Only a little one.

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton 

4. Obama cancels a mission which is far over its already-considerable budget and has few prospects for contributing anything meaningful to our society.*

Opinion stated as fact.

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton 

5. ?!?!?!

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton 

6. ...NASA is terribly important and Obama is ruining America!

Again BS....

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton 

7. BadKosh works for NASA. Just sayin.

Which is why I know something of it's culture.

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton 

Anyways... this thread makes no sense. Obama finally said "cut." Woohoo.

greg



*Sorry Glen, but Apollo happened in the context of the Cold War. It was an ideological battle. You weren't just working for some company; you were working for America, beating the commies every time you put on a lab suit. That all-important ideological component no longer exists.

So we should abandon the ideals and expertise? To what end?

[CreepDogg]

Reading this thread, I feel like I've entered some bizarro opposite-land.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

As well as the other frauds who got caught tampering with the data.

Damn, I hate to turn this into a GW thread, but who "got caught" tampering with the data? And from NASA?

(Put answer in the GW threat maybe?)

greg

[sek929]

This thread is overflowing with the spunk of conservatives.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

As well as the other frauds who got caught tampering with the data.

If NASA was caught tampering with data, why should we trust them with human space exploration? How do we know they're even any good at it? Maybe they've been tampering with *that* data as well!

[ghporter]

"NASA", like "government," is made up of individuals. Some individuals are very good, and a few aren't very good. Saying "NASA tampered with the data" is disingenuous. Someone at NASA tampered with the data. And they got caught. And IIRC, they are no longer with NASA...

[Kerrigan]

So, some people at NASA are GW believers... Conservatives must abandon NASA!

So, Obama dislikes gay people and gay marriage ... Liberals must abandon Obama!

Nobody would accept either of these arguments. We all pick and choose our principles.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

"NASA", like "government," is made up of individuals. Some individuals are very good, and a few aren't very good. Saying "NASA tampered with the data" is disingenuous. Someone at NASA tampered with the data. And they got caught. And IIRC, they are no longer with NASA...

You're absolutely right. But, months ago we were told, by BadKosh, that *NASA* messed up the data.
http://forums.macnn.com/95/political...6/#post3913223

[smacintush]

I personally have no problem with this. I would support 100% de-funding of NASA. They have done great things and I hope they continue to do great things, just not with tax money.

As far as the value of manned space exploration…

I don't have the benefit of having been alive during the first moon landing so I don't have the memory and the emotion of that moment. It was an exciting time I'm sure. So, looking at it from MY perspective, one without an emotional response to the whole issue, I say that beyond the obvious effect it had on the country at the time it was a waste of time and money.

Then again, I'm a "nut".

[prewarguy]

Obama hasn't gotten much right but he nailed this one. We can do far more space exploration if we don't have to build in safe guards and equipment for human beings. We will get far more bang for our buck. What did we learn from sending men to the moon that we would not have gotten by sending robots for far less money? What would we find sending men to Mars that would exceed what we would learn if we send several more robots for the same money.

We should however continue a small group to plan for how we would send men into deep space if the need should present itself or if we ever got the national budget balanced again