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SirCastor · Nov 13, 2006, 09:21 PM

Originally Posted by finboy

Has anyone asked yet why Cylons can't just back themselves up before battle and then go in fearless?

It's already been established they value (their) lives too much to do suicide. And if not suicide, why backup? The ressurectionship is always at hand.

Millennium · Nov 13, 2006, 10:36 PM

Originally Posted by Ganesha

Wouldn't the Cylons have deactivated all of Athena's access codes by now? You think after she stole all the launch keys on NC they would of tightened up their network security.

Can they deactivate Athena's access codes? Although the Cylons do seem to have a concept of individual personalities, it is only in a very limited sense: they don't even use names among themselves. While the different Agents seem to be able to tell her apart from other Eights, we know for sure that the Centurions can't. Perhaps the Hybrid can't either: to "her" (does the concept of gender even really apply?), Athena may appear no different from any other Eight.

bstone · Nov 14, 2006, 01:36 AM

They sure seem to have a concept of individuality. Athena dressed up as a "regular" Cylon while on New Caprica and she was recognized. Also, on the dying Basestar she was recognized by one of her own models and called a traitor.

Seems their abilities at recognition are just fine.

Chuckit · Nov 14, 2006, 01:40 AM

Originally Posted by SirCastor

It's already been established they value (their) lives too much to do suicide.

Has it? Didn't several Cylons (including Six) do suicide missions in the first season?

Millennium · Nov 14, 2006, 07:35 AM

Originally Posted by bstone

They sure seem to have a concept of individuality. Athena dressed up as a "regular" Cylon while on New Caprica and she was recognized. Also, on the dying Basestar she was recognized by one of her own models and called a traitor.

Yes, the Agents can recognize individuals. The Centurions, however, cannot. They haven't said about the Hybrid, but consider the Cylon system of government: one person seems to tap into the hive-mind to represent all the Agents of its model, and the representatives meet as a council. It seems to be implied that any Agent could represent its own model, and they never state how representatives are picked.

Seems their abilities at recognition are just fine.

For the Agents, yes. For the centurions, no. For the hybrids? That's uncertain.

bstone · Nov 14, 2006, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by Millennium

Yes, the Agents can recognize individuals. The Centurions, however, cannot. They haven't said about the Hybrid, but consider the Cylon system of government: one person seems to tap into the hive-mind to represent all the Agents of its model, and the representatives meet as a council. It seems to be implied that any Agent could represent its own model, and they never state how representatives are picked.

For the Agents, yes. For the centurions, no. For the hybrids? That's uncertain.

Agreed.

SirCastor · Nov 14, 2006, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Has it? Didn't several Cylons (including Six) do suicide missions in the first season?

Hmm, I guess you're right. Doral did blow himself up early on.

Dark Helmet · Nov 14, 2006, 11:30 AM

I was disappointed they didn't show any centurions on the sick basestar as it would have been cool to see them get scared by one standing in the corner only to find out they can walk right up to it and kick it in the crotch.

The centurions are 100% machines and no organics right? If so why weren't they active when the ship was dying? If they need to have the basestar for orders how do they operate when on a planet or BSG?

I didn't find part 2 rather disappointing compared to part one though, I really wanted to learn more about that whole projection thing. The beacon wasn't really explained and Adama seemed to take it rather casually that it was there and had a Cylon killing virus on it.

I also found it really difficult watching Baltar get tortured as it was quite graphic, the scene was really well done and he is an amazing actor.

Chuckit · Nov 14, 2006, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

The centurions are 100% machines and no organics right? If so why weren't they active when the ship was dying? If they need to have the basestar for orders how do they operate when on a planet or BSG?

When they were debating whether to send a rescue mission, the Cylons on Baltar's basestar seemed to think it could affect anything Cylon because they were all made from the same basic blueprint (or something like that). Presumably it ties in with why they thought the disease could be spread by resurrection.

PBG4 User · Nov 14, 2006, 11:44 AM

The Cylon killing virus was explained at the end of part 2. Basically one of the people who built the beacon sneezed on it. The virus lay dormant until brought onto the Cylon ship and (I guess) came back to life when it hit room temperature. Adama remarks at the end of part 2 that the disease matches one that plagued humans about 3000 years ago, cementing the notion the beacon had been left by the 13th tribe when they went to Earth.

Dark Helmet · Nov 14, 2006, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

When they were debating whether to send a rescue mission, the Cylons on Baltar's basestar seemed to think it could affect anything Cylon because they were all made from the same basic blueprint (or something like that). Presumably it ties in with why they thought the disease could be spread by resurrection.

That is what I thought also but every time a centurion has been blown up they are all metal from what I remember.

Even the raiders have "personalities" as we found out in scar so I would think we would have found out about a centurion that was reborn with a grudge by now.

Heck I just want to hear one talk.

hart · Nov 16, 2006, 03:48 PM

darn, I've completely caught up with the series via DVDs and downloads. Now I have to wait with the rest of you for Friday nights.

Can't you guys at least argue for a while longer about the moral implications of Cylon self-awareness or something to tide me over?

SirCastor · Nov 16, 2006, 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by hart

darn, I've completely caught up with the series via DVDs and downloads. Now I have to wait with the rest of you for Friday nights.

Can't you guys at least argue for a while longer about the moral implications of Cylon self-awareness or something to tide me over?

I remember when that happened for me. It sucks.

bstone · Nov 16, 2006, 10:53 PM

Cylons are not self-aware.

Human are only half-aware.

The gods are not real, nor is the Cylon god.

Does anyone think that Sharon Agathon projects while walking through the Galactica? Is she trying to do a Data and become human or being the Cylon-ally?

goMac · Nov 16, 2006, 11:14 PM

Originally Posted by bstone

Cylons are not self-aware.

Human are only half-aware.

Elaborate. Because I disagree. I think humans and Cylons are just as "living" and self aware.

reader50 · Nov 17, 2006, 12:44 AM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

So is there any question that Athena blew up the basestar?

There was an exchange of looks while Apollo mentioned that they had been lucky to get off in time. I read both their expressions to mean something like this.

"Uh, yeah. Lucky we got in and out in time to be infected. With a disease that is killing the ship's entire crew. Yep, we sure were lucky."

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

...
The centurions are 100% machines and no organics right? If so why weren't they active when the ship was dying? If they need to have the basestar for orders how do they operate when on a planet or BSG?
...

My impression is that the Hybrid takes the place of a ship's central computer. She has ultimate control of all connected baseship systems and hardware. The humanoid models would be the main items she doesn't control.

So when she went delirious with the virus, she'd have overwritten the software (and possibly firmware too) of all connected systems. With random garbage.

That is why all the Centurions in that baseship shut down. Also why the internal network went sour, and why the engineering systems eventually blew. A software garbage overwrite might have taken out the Raiders, or they might have been gotten by the virus directly through umbilical supply connections.

Originally Posted by hart

darn, I've completely caught up with the series via DVDs and downloads. Now I have to wait with the rest of you for Friday nights.

Can't you guys at least argue for a while longer about the moral implications of Cylon self-awareness or something to tide me over?

If you've read all 39 pages after catching up on the eps, I'm impressed. I jumped in at 7 pages, and thought the discussion was long at that point.

If you haven't read the entire thread, go ahead. There is a lot of intelligent discussion.

aristotles · Nov 17, 2006, 01:09 AM

Originally Posted by bstone

Cylons are not self-aware.

Human are only half-aware.

The gods are not real, nor is the Cylon god.

You realize this is science fiction right? Let's wait and see before jumping to conclusions.

bstone · Nov 17, 2006, 03:02 AM

Originally Posted by aristotles

You realize this is science fiction right? Let's wait and see before jumping to conclusions.

I was actually just trying to be funny in that. However my original real quesiton remains- does Sharon Agathon project while serving on the galactica?

Millennium · Nov 17, 2006, 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by bstone

I was actually just trying to be funny in that. However my original real quesiton remains- does Sharon Agathon project while serving on the galactica?

It's not been said. She probably does, if it's as deeply ingrained into Cylon psychology as they've hinted.

That said, I wonder if Sharon Valerii projected. Again, she was programmed to think she was human, and if she projected as Cylons do (and as humans don't), she might have started to question that. But if the Cylons can program themselves to think in a more humanlike way, then why don't they do it for all Cylons? Given their obsession with imitating humanity, I'd think that humanlike psychology would be another step along that path.

goMac · Nov 17, 2006, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by bstone

I was actually just trying to be funny in that. However my original real quesiton remains- does Sharon Agathon project while serving on the galactica?

Did the original Sharon project when she was on Galactica?

SirCastor · Nov 17, 2006, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

Did the original Sharon project when she was on Galactica?

I highly doubt it. She didn't know she was a Cylon. I think that Projecting is a willful act. You would have to know how to do it. And thinking she was human, she probably wouldn't know that.
I also add that I think projecting is probably something that gets better with Practice. IE after you've done it for a while, it's automatic...

RAILhead · Nov 17, 2006, 11:22 PM

AWESOME EPISODE!! w00t!!1!

Sourbook · Nov 18, 2006, 12:33 AM

So how did Bulldog find the Galactia? And if the fleet is that easy to find, how come the Cylons don't harass them more?

Chuckit · Nov 18, 2006, 02:56 AM

Originally Posted by Sourbook

So how did Bulldog find the Galactia? And if the fleet is that easy to find, how come the Cylons don't harass them more?

Maybe the Cylons had seen them just recently.

reader50 · Nov 18, 2006, 06:36 AM

Yes, a good episode.

Adama didn't break the armistice a year before the attack. It is already established that Sharon Valerii was in Colonial space at least two years before the attack. The physical Number Six as well. That all but requires the Cylons to have infiltrated at least three years before the attack, to do the necessary homework, catch up on current social norms, and be able to blend in.

On the Battlestar Valkyrie, the stealth ship showed up nicely on dradis.

SpaceMonkey · Nov 18, 2006, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by reader50

On the Battlestar Valkyrie, the stealth ship showed up nicely on dradis.

Yeah, that was pretty lame.

I'm also not sure why no one pointed out to Admiral Adama that, you know, genocide isn't a reasonable response to his stepping over the line, so it's hardly his fault.

Oversoul · Nov 18, 2006, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by reader50

Yes, a good episode.

Adama didn't break the armistice a year before the attack. It is already established that Sharon Valerii was in Colonial space at least two years before the attack. The physical Number Six as well. That all but requires the Cylons to have infiltrated at least three years before the attack, to do the necessary homework, catch up on current social norms, and be able to blend in.

On the Battlestar Valkyrie, the stealth ship showed up nicely on dradis.

Those two plot points bugged me too.

I thought Adama had been in command of the Galactica for at least three years before the attack. And assume two years have passed since the destruction of the colonies. That puts the black ops mission five years ago, and not three.

The stealth ship looked very nifty. But what's the point of a stealth ship if the Colonial's own Dradis could pick it up? Even if we assume the stealth ship had some secret transponder that registered it on the Colonials' Dradis only, the Cylons certainly seemed to detect the stealth ship rather quickly and only two clicks passed the Armistice Line. The Blackbird jumped right into the middle of a Cylon fleet and up the belly of a Resurrection ship without being detected.

But it was still an excellent episode. Olmos' acting continues to impress me and Rosalyn makes a lot of sense. Bamber was great in this episode too, when Apollo was talking to the old man.

Oversoul · Nov 18, 2006, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by Sourbook

So how did Bulldog find the Galactia? And if the fleet is that easy to find, how come the Cylons don't harass them more?

I'm also surprised no one, especially Starbuck, pointed that out. Starbuck was keen enough to recognize how Bulldog's escape was too coincidental but didn't point out the worrying fact that if this was all a Cylon ruse then the Cylons know exactly where they are.

Also, consider that the fleet has been moving for two years away from the Colonies and presumeably away from Cylon space too. Why would Bulldog jump to the fleet's location now? Space is big.

greenamp · Nov 18, 2006, 05:03 PM

Yeah there was some odd stuff in last nights ep. I'd like to think they were plot hooks for future story arcs.

And I'm surprised no one has mentioned the brief scene with Six, Baltar, and Lawless in bed.

reader50 · Nov 18, 2006, 05:25 PM

Was anyone else reminded of The Defector, TNG 3x10? Go back and see who wrote that episode.

There are some other continuity problems here. I'm pretty sure past dialog refers to Adama and Tigh remembering Valerii coming aboard as the rookie Raptor pilot two years before the attack. And I think she was assigned straight to Galactica from the academy. So how the heck did Adama and Tigh end up on the Valkyrie? Temporary transfer, send an officer near retirement in case the whole thing blows up and someone has to take the fall?

Wiskedjak · Nov 18, 2006, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by greenamp

And I'm surprised no one has mentioned the brief scene with Six, Baltar, and Lawless in bed.

I just assumed they were making up for torturing him.

Seriously, though, that was certainly odd. I can only assume telling Lawless that he loved her, while she was torturing him, had some effect on her.

forkies · Nov 19, 2006, 03:35 AM

that was awesome when we first saw bulldog's face, i was thinking "sweet, it's dixon!"

SpaceMonkey · Nov 19, 2006, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by forkies

that was awesome when we first saw bulldog's face, i was thinking "sweet, it's dixon!"

Heh. I was thinking M.A.N.T.I.S.

Paco500 · Nov 19, 2006, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey

Heh. I was thinking M.A.N.T.I.S.

And I was thinking it was John Parker.

SirCastor · Nov 19, 2006, 04:42 PM

It was a good plotline regarding Adama's past. I don't know what to say about the plot inconsistancies. I wasn't paying that close attention.

What the heck are the Cylons doing? Seriously, it feels to me like they're just wandering through space the writers can't figure out anything for them to do...

Chuckit · Nov 19, 2006, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by SirCastor

What the heck are the Cylons doing? Seriously, it feels to me like they're just wandering through space the writers can't figure out anything for them to do...

They're looking for Earth.

MRTrauffer · Nov 19, 2006, 05:34 PM

Strange...the podcast for Hero isn't available yet. They're usually pretty fast about releasing them. Anyone heard about what happened to the podcast?

Dale Sorel · Nov 19, 2006, 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by MRTrauffer

Strange...the podcast for Hero isn't available yet. They're usually pretty fast about releasing them. Anyone heard about what happened to the podcast?

No podcast here for Hero yet either... I don't know what the deal is, they've been quite speedy with all the Season 3 podcasts 'till now.

reader50 · Nov 19, 2006, 10:49 PM

Originally Posted by SciFi.com

Due to technical difficulties, the podcast for "Hero" has been delayed. SCIFI.COM apologizes for any inconvenience.

Posted here.

Dark Helmet · Nov 20, 2006, 02:11 AM

Originally Posted by reader50

Was anyone else reminded of The Defector, TNG 3x10? Go back and see who wrote that episode.

Ya first thing that came to mind for me also so i smelt a rat from the beginning.

For me the biggest shocker was the 3some.

Oh and I liked the CIC on Adam's former ship. It was very 2001 and Alien 1.

JoshuaZ · Nov 20, 2006, 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

For me the biggest shocker was the 3some.

For me... it was the best part.

Dark Helmet · Nov 20, 2006, 12:46 PM

I really don't like the way he escaped though and it feels a bit lazy on the writers part to me. RDM always mentions that they don't want to explain in detail how some things happen as it doesn't matter you just have to go with it.

But really... how does a guy that was mentally tormented in a Cylon Baseship for 3 years punch one cylon out, make his way to a pressurized hanger bay, crack open a raider somehow, climb in a master the goo controls, launch, jump to exactly where Galactica is, only have 2 raiders follow him and suck at the shooting.

I just didn't buy it and I am surprised Adama or anyone else didn't think it over and interrogate him more.

For me it would have been better if they found him aboard the sick cylon Basestar or he at least escaped using a captured raptor. Even then I don't know how he jumped right by BSG and had a working transmitter.

I can let some details slide but this one is a bit much.

OreoCookie · Nov 20, 2006, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

I really don't like the way he escaped though and it feels a bit lazy on the writers part to me. RDM always mentions that they don't want to explain in detail how some things happen as it doesn't matter you just have to go with it.
...
For me it would have been better if they found him aboard the sick cylon Basestar or he at least escaped using a captured raptor. Even then I don't know how he jumped right by BSG and had a working transmitter.

I can let some details slide but this one is a bit much.

I agree. I'm also a bit amazed at the lack of discussion as to what the Cylons want … It would be fun to have an X-Fil'ish unraveling of truth: Adama and Roslin are looking for answer to the question `why' and you are always have a step ahead. Right now it looks like everything the Cylons do takes the humans by surprise.

This here is just an example. You would also think he had undergone some testing and torture (besides being locked up in a cage). Also, neither Adama nor anyone else seems interested in potential information Bulldog has: after three years with the Cylons, it's at least conceivable that he has some infos the others don't have.

Dark Helmet · Nov 20, 2006, 01:19 PM

Where do you think they are going with D'anna "something beautiful between life and death" bit?
Do you think it has something to do with making them more human (like Caprica 6 and 8) or why each time hurts more?

On a side note for someone just tuning into the show and not knowing anything the Cylon CIC looks sorta funny. This week when they showed it it consisted of a couple different sets of blond quintuplets with perfect hair and stylish skirts walking around looking busy.

reader50 · Nov 20, 2006, 03:06 PM

Bulldog cannot have jumped. First, the Galactica crew took weeks to figure out a Raider's jump drive, and had to install a small computer & keyboard to enter coordinates. Second, you can't follow someone through a jump - you have to know the target coordinates before jump.

Since two Raiders chased him, the chase was entirely through normal space. This also solves the problem of Bulldog having to find the fleet in the vastness of space - the Cylons found the fleet, and herded Bulldog towards it during the chase.

The baseship he "escaped" from had to have been in normal space, somewhere beyond dradis range.

Regarding Baltar, the service has improved a great deal. In order for that to have happened, Caprica must have only told D'Anna about Baltar's leaving the beacon out of his explanations. Otherwise, doing inexplicable things during torture would not have ended the torture - that Number Three would have been replaced by another unit.

We have not seen Boomer for awhile. No unambiguous sightings since Precipice. I'm wondering if the 200 executions ordered were the last straw, and she hid out in one of the Colonial ships to be evacuated with everyone else.

Stogieman · Nov 22, 2006, 10:07 PM

Source: SCI FI Wire
November 21, 2006

SCI FI Channel has announced that "Battlestar Galactica" will move to a new timeslot starting January 21, 2007: Sundays at 10 p.m. ET/PT, following the premiere of the new original series "The Dresden Files" at 9 p.m.

"Battlestar Galactica" has been airing episodes of its current third season on Fridays at 9 p.m. ET/PT.

Executive-produced by Ronald D. Moore and David Eick, the series stars Edward James Olmos, Mary McDonnell, Jamie Bamber, Katee Sackhoff, James Callis, Tricia Helfer and Grace Park.

powerbook867 · Nov 22, 2006, 11:20 PM

I see no logic in this other than they are trying to jump start another series?

Friday night has been Battlestar night for a while now...annoying..

Stogieman · Nov 23, 2006, 12:24 AM

I agree. The same thing happened to the X-Files. That show started to suck once it moved over to Sunday nights. Let's hope the same thing doesn't happen to BSG.

Dark Helmet · Nov 23, 2006, 12:29 AM

I'm glad. Friday/sat is a terrible night. Sunday is prime time baby!

Millennium · Nov 23, 2006, 01:54 AM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

I'm glad. Friday/sat is a terrible night. Sunday is prime time baby!

Not for those of us who have work or school on Monday. Sunday at 8:00 would be one thing, but Sunday at 10:00 is simply too late.