[SamuraiDL]

If this is too heavy then forget it, but seriously, what does it mean?
to me, the next right thing? Maybe, but what if god wants people to f**k up to? Is there a plan? Is my plan to write this thread? I dont know...

[splatq]

To me? Nothing.

Religion has, for thousands of years, preached compassion toward your fellow man, understanding, forgiveness and indifference. Judge no one, lest they be judged.

We've all seen how well that turned out...

[SamuraiDL]

please not about religion, just a higher power.

[Scientist]

Originally posted by SamuraiDL:
please not about religion, just a higher power.

Like my dad?

Or maybe lightening?

[ASIMO]

A piece of clay.

[Face Ache]

God is, like, the hole in the doughnut, you know?

The real questions are:

Is a doughnut without a hole still a doughnut or is it just fried dough?

And where do jam doughnuts enter into the scheme of things?

If you want to define god you have to start there.

[CharlesS]

Who knows?

[Macfreak7]

The real question is whether or not there is a god in the first place.

Very often I ask some of my teachers/professors if they believe in god or not, and their reasons for the same. I have found that teachers of the hard sciences (like chemistry and biology, perhaps not physics) more often than not DO believe in god, on average, and teachers of philosophy for example, on average DO NOT believe in god.

So it's matter of belief based on personal experiences. However, the most logical/rational position to adopt would be that of agnosticism.

But if you're talking about determinism, then no, everything is not determined. Perhaps in the grand scheme of things, like we will eventually kill each other in the name of religion. But for now, I can choose to click submit or not. And i choose not to.

[OB1]

To me god means creepy, nervous people knocking at my door trying pursuade me to be like them, or stopping me in the street to do the same. Or shouting at me in the street using loudspeakers. Or people who believe they're allowed to kill me because I don't believe in their ancient mumbo-jumbo, but don't have a single shred of evidence to back it up. Bombs, wars, shame of our own bodies and their functions. I wish they'd shut up. We're all scared of dying.

[gadster]

God is like a dummy for grown-ups.

[awcopus]

God is a man-made idea that there is a supernatural entity that is usually deemed all powerful, all knowing, and sometimes a moral force (but not in a manner comprehensible to us).

Usually included in the idea of a God is that human beings are subordinate to this entity, which creates the unfortunate problem of people leading their lives as if their lives were not as important as God's will. God's will is pretty arbitrary (witness different interpretations based on different ideas in different cultures), but the consistent thread is that human life is necessarily less important.

On a personal, human level, God is simultaneously this abstract idea described above and, usually, a buffer against the fear of death, since most of the systems of belief built around the idea of a God promise life after death. This is problematic for the obvious reasons (1) God worshippers believe their lives in this world are necessarily inferior to their lives in the "next" one, and (2) they tend to believe that people who don't believe in thier religion are worth a little (or a whole lot) less than other God worshippers of their kind. See history.

God is a placeholder for people's fear of the unknown. Also a way for the masses to channel their envy of poeple who dare to live life unafraid.

On a positive note, God is also the idea that no human being is above morality. The idea of a king justifiably treating people in terrible ways was eventually undermined by the idea that even kings are subject to a universal morality. Hmmm.

[Axo1ot1]

I think God is a way of describing all and everything. I do not think that God is an old man in the clouds. I think that one of the most dangerous things about religion is that, at least in the judao-christian traditions, God tends to be anthropomorphized. Once God is a person you can understand His will on your own terms and if people think they know His will they tend to carry it out no matter what the results. My belief is that God is so complex that even if it exists or not is absolutely irrelevant to humans because we are so insignificant that we can't be affected by it. God is not moving pieces around on a chess board. God just Is, and everything that exists is a facet thereof.

If you want to talk about religion I think that it is first and foremost a moral code for people. A product manual for life, if you will. There are a lot of tough descisions to be made every day, and I think the world tends to be a better place when people with love and respect for humanity and a thick moral fiber are making those descisions. What we have been learning as a race over the past few hundred years is that we do not need organized religion to do this, and that the vision of God offered by the huge majority of organized religions is more trouble than it is worth.

[wdlove]

God is an integral part of my life. He knows the beginning and the end. The creator of Heaven and Earth.

[f1000]

Originally posted by Scientist:
Like my dad?

Or maybe lightening?

Lightening? You mean like what Michael Jackson did?

[voodoo]

Originally posted by Face Ache:


Is a doughnut without a hole still a doughnut or is it just fried dough?

No it's a berliner.

[SamuraiDL]

cool

[awcopus]

Another thing about "God" is that when the idea first takes hold in children, it always bears a close resemblance to the notion of it communicated repeatedly by parental figures. Pretty much every time I meet somebody who professes absolute certainty about the truth of the existence in the universe of an entity resembling the idea of God he or she has in mind, I imagine the person as a child being told over and over again not only about the importance of Mommy and Daddy's version of the idea but also about the horrible things in store for people who do not subscribe to the truth of this idea. I consider this emotional child abuse, because the effect of it is that later in life, these children understand God in emotional terms to be a foundation for the connection they have to their family, so that they respond to intellectual arguments by defending their parents (which is accomplished through repeating what they've been taught).

Another way of looking at the idea of God is to say that it is the idea that the irrational or nonrational is supreme to the rational, since most people for whom "God" is real are also convinced that God is more significant or more important than anything we know or may imagine.

[I Me Mine]

I always think God looks like Denver Pyle but with longer hair.

[Dennis002]

To me it looks as if God is a concept that works like a placebo.
The believe probably really alters the mind.
There should be more investigation, e.g. on PET-scan alterations in relation to religious experience.
And I am really curious about trials that investigate the influence of e.g. antipsychotic medicine on fanatic religious experience (has this ever been examined?)
So let us try some more scientific aproach. After all, everything else is being examinated.

[Superchicken]

What does God mean to me? He's my Father, my friend, my master, and saviour. He saught me when I refused to love Him, he's held me in terror and depression. He's laughed with me incredibly often. He has proven He's more than a concept, He has proven He will provide for me what I need in this life. He has given me direction, and an understanding of things that I could not even begin to explain.
He is the one who works things out in my life, and speaks words of wisdom to make me a better person. He is the one who brings struggles and pain in my life to cut out those things which I hate, and to strengthen those things of worth in me.

And he provided the money for me to buy my iBook.

In short, God is far more than you can understand. We can only understand a small fraction of who God is, But to do even that we must first be willing to let Him show Himself to us.

That said, God is the reason I am a Christian. God is not God because I am a Christian. God would be God regardless of what I believe. God is God regardless of what you believe. And He is the only reason I have chosen to continue to breathe air in every morning.

[scaught]

Originally posted by Axo1ot1:
I think God is a way of describing all and everything. I do not think that God is an old man in the clouds. I think that one of the most dangerous things about religion is that, at least in the judao-christian traditions, God tends to be anthropomorphized. Once God is a person you can understand His will on your own terms and if people think they know His will they tend to carry it out no matter what the results. My belief is that God is so complex that even if it exists or not is absolutely irrelevant to humans because we are so insignificant that we can't be affected by it. God is not moving pieces around on a chess board. God just Is, and everything that exists is a facet thereof.

If you want to talk about religion I think that it is first and foremost a moral code for people. A product manual for life, if you will. There are a lot of tough descisions to be made every day, and I think the world tends to be a better place when people with love and respect for humanity and a thick moral fiber are making those descisions. What we have been learning as a race over the past few hundred years is that we do not need organized religion to do this, and that the vision of God offered by the huge majority of organized religions is more trouble than it is worth.

i would just say "lets not talk about what god is, but what god isn't", but you put it down pretty well.

[voyageur]

Originally posted by Dennis002:

And I am really curious about trials that investigate the influence of e.g. antipsychotic medicine on fanatic religious experience (has this ever been examined?)
So let us try some more scientific aproach. After all, everything else is being examinated.

This made me curious to find out what has been published. A quick search on PubMed for the effect of antipsychotics on religious experience turned up only one relevant paper:
Exorcism-resistant ghost possession treated with clopenthixol.

There is much more information on religious delusions in psychotic patients, and how anti-psychotics can in some cases relieve these, although patients with religious delusions may be harder to treat.

There is also a paper that claims religious studies students score higher on tests of psychoticism: Religion and personality among religious studies students: a replication.

On the other hand, some clinicians believe that along with a supportive family and good psychiatric treatment, religion may help some patients with mental illness on the road to recovery.

It seems religion is very much a two-edged sword. Somehow humans evolved to become religious creatures on the whole. It's a very interesting question as to why.

[Krusty]

Originally posted by voyageur:

It seems religion is very much a two-edged sword. Somehow humans evolved to become religious creatures on the whole. It's a very interesting question as to why.

Why ? The only stab I can take at answering is that it works as a means for organizing large groups of people hierarchically (especially pre-enlightenment when it was pretty much the only conceptual authority mechanism). In other words, a person who was more inclined toward religion would be:
More willing to accept a religiously ordained hierarchy (King--->serf) and their place in it.
More willing to work cooperatively toward "bigger" societal goals (often conceived by a person in power but requiring the coordinated effort of many)
More willing to follow ritualistic behavior than "intuitive" behavior (eg. abstaining from sex before marriage because their religion says its wrong. This would go contrary to their natural, animal impulses but would help maintain society by insuring that organizational units of society remain intact.)

In short, perhaps a tendency for religiousness is selected for because it is these people that will be more easily "organizable" into larger societal groups -- whose members are much favored for survival over individuals who are not part of a group.

[wolfen]

Originally posted by voyageur:
There is much more information on religious delusions in psychotic patients, and how anti-psychotics can in some cases relieve these, although patients with religious delusions may be harder to treat.

There is also a paper that claims religious studies students score higher on tests of psychoticism: Religion and personality among religious studies students: a replication.

The research of sanity and spirituality is truly enlightening. You hear all kinds of contradictory evidence on the matter. The further into it you go, the less consistent the facts.

The majority of research concludes that religion and spiritual experiences are valuable psychotic events which lead to greater overall resiliency.

Good find there, voyageur.

[SamuraiDL]

any friends of bill?

[bstone]

I take a bit more of a hippy/Native American approach to G-d. The Great Spirit, the engery, the power, the Spirit. I feel that I can connect with G-d in nature, hear the singing of the trees, the songs of the whales, the balance that is. For me, my love of nature is my lovesong for the Divine.

[xenu]

There is no god, so he means nothing to me.

[blackbird_1.0]

God is, huh, I'm not really sure I could put it into words,basically what Superchiken said. Although I believe that no one could ever really say.

[gerbnl]

God is just people's inabilitity to believe in themselves...

[voyageur]

Originally posted by Krusty:
Why ? <snip>
In short, perhaps a tendency for religiousness is selected for because it is these people that will be more easily "organizable" into larger societal groups -- whose members are much favored for survival over individuals who are not part of a group.

That sounds plausible. I also think (and this is just speculation!) that religion may be a side effect of the evolution of creative thinking in humans. Our brains are organized so that we have a remarkable capability to link seemingly unrelated phenomena and come up with new tools and ideas--also a great evolutionary advantage! The source of this creativity might also be responsible for art, music, religion, and even psychosis.

[CrackedButter]

Dog, backwards

[Axo1ot1]

If God made man in his own image then he must have been a sexy motherf�cker like me.

[hyteckit]

God means never having to say you're sorry.

[hyteckit]

Oops, that's Love, not God. My bad.

[awcopus]

Originally posted by wolfen:
The research of sanity and spirituality is truly enlightening. You hear all kinds of contradictory evidence on the matter. The further into it you go, the less consistent the facts.

The majority of research concludes that religion and spiritual experiences are valuable psychotic events which lead to greater overall resiliency.

Good find there, voyageur.

wolfen, strongly held beliefs, a consistent and personally reassuring worldview, and the ability to share the experience of both beliefs and worldview in a community... these factors benefit both mystical and secular people in terms of factors such as health, emotional and rehabilitative resiliency, and longevity.

[amsalpemkcus]

GOD - Gate Of Discord.

GOD - Game Operations Director.

[Dennis002]

Epilepsy Behav. 2003 Dec;4(6):667-73.
_
Partial epilepsy with "ecstatic" seizures.
Asheim Hansen B, Brodtkorb E.

" Reports focusing on auras of ecstasy or pleasure have been limited largely to single case descriptions. We examined 11 consecutive patients with such ictal symptoms. Eight had sensory hallucinations, four had erotic sensations, five described "a religious/spiritual experience," and several had symptoms that were felt to have no counterpart in human experience. Ictal EEG recordings were performed in four patients; two had seizure onset in the right temporal lobe and two in the left. In seven the onset could not be definitely localized. The diagnosis of epilepsy was often delayed. Eight patients wished to experience seizures; self-induction was possible in five and four showed treatment noncompliance. In patients with insufficient drug intake, in whom good compliance should be expected, it is relevant to consider seizures with pleasant symptomatology. According to the literature, experiential and ecstatic seizures seem to have had a substantial impact on our cultural and religious history".

Well, there is few scientific material indeed. A religious experience as an epileptic manifestation with selfinduction, interesting thought.
I remember having read that there are children with pyromania who can elict little
focal insults bij looking at fire and who seem to enjoy it.

[hyteckit]

GOD - Gathering Of Developers

[forkies]

wow, awcopus, your views of religion are strikingly similar to my own. however, i could not have articulated it nearly as well. great job!

[James Christ]

Originally posted by forkies:
wow, awcopus, your views of religion are strikingly similar to my own. however, i could not have articulated it nearly as well. great job!

Aha, safety in masses! Well, two people in this case.

[brapper]

Science has shown that the tiniest of changes during 'the big bang' could have lead to the universe being completely different - yet somehow it's turned out this way.
I can't believe that it's coincidence that life has resulted from some random draw of billions of possibilities, therefore there must have been a force responsible for the result.
Who knows how to properly worship this force, or whether worship is even obligatory or necessary. my only conclusion is that there must be some force that should be recognized.

[clt2]

I can't believe that we landed on the moon, therefore we didn't.

[quandarry]

god is something we created to blame things on.

for the christians the most famous blamer-onner started with yeshuwah of nasira

when he uttered the blame for his predicament "father why have you forsaken me!"

[wdlove]

Today is the Sabbath, a day of rest to honor God. It is the Lord's Day.

[sandsl]

Nothing.

[James Christ]

Originally posted by brapper:
Science has shown that the tiniest of changes during 'the big bang' could have lead to the universe being completely different - yet somehow it's turned out this way.
I can't believe that it's coincidence that life has resulted from some random draw of billions of possibilities, therefore there must have been a force responsible for the result.
Who knows how to properly worship this force, or whether worship is even obligatory or necessary. my only conclusion is that there must be some force that should be recognized.

Ah, but the numerous parallel universes which came out of the numerous Big Bangs all have critters that say the same thing. When you're comfy you say 'God created this order.' When you're not comfy you say 'The devil is after me!'

Take a close look at how much disorder there is and you'll notice that the universe/s is a delicate balance of order and chaos, not just order. One can't exist without the other. When you only think of the order then you say 'someone created this'. In fact, the balance has to exist because without it nothing can exist and non-existence is not possible because if it was possible then someone would have to be around to say 'nothing exists' and therefore there would be an observer and therefore something would exist and therefore it would have to exist in something that exists and that thing that exists is existence and the perpetual universe that is constantly regurigtating itself like this load of existential nonsense I am currently writing.

Think of universe as eating, digesting, shitting, going down toilets, sewers, pigs and chickens eating fertilizer grown crop and then being eaten by humans again. Here comes another cycle.

[James Christ]

Originally posted by wdlove:
Today is the Sabbath, a day of rest to honor God. It is the Lord's Day.

It's not Lord's Day. It's Saturday.

[quandarry]

Originally posted by wdlove:
Today is the Sabbath, a day of rest to honor God. It is the Lord's Day.

`

bless you my son, but do not honour me but blameth me for i send you pestilence,

scourges and celine dion.

[James Christ]

Originally posted by quandarry:
`

bless you my son, but do not honour me but blameth me for i send you pestilence,

scourges and celine dion.

NOOOO! Not Celine Dion! He hath sent us Celine Dion!

Jehovah! Jehovah! Jehovah! Jehovah! Jehovah!

Blasphemer! Stone him, stone him!

[g. olson]

God is an excuse for ignorance.