[olePigeon]

Finally got around to converting my CDs to MP3. I noticed that as the copyright date got higher, the songs got shorter and the number of tracks less. My favorite genres of metal and rock were from 70s to 80s, on average, about 6 1/2 minutes a song. They ranged from about 3 minutes to 9 minutes (but most over 5 minutes), with about 14 tracks a CD.

Metal genre started to shorten around 1990 to an average of about 4 minutes a song. Rock shorted to about 3 minutes. The number of tracks also shortened from about 13 to 15 tracks, to about 10 to 12.

On top of that, we pay $15CD vs. $5 I used to pay for an LP or the $8 for a tape. I guess iTMS is making it a little better.

[olePigeon]

OT: Who the hell sets the genres for my music?! The Cranberries are NOT Alternative!

[HotSoup]

Wow, 6.5 min. is long for me. I like my songs to be at most 4 min. If they go on to long, I often change them. Don't know why, just habit. I like a fast pacing in the mornings (when I listen to most my music).

[AKcrab]

I think it's the lack of attention span in our younger generations.
What was this thread about?

[ryju]

Listen to TOOL and Sigur Ros

[Powaqqatsi]

Originally posted by olePigeon:
OT: Who the hell sets the genres for my music?! The Cranberries are NOT Alternative!

The question is: What is "alternative" music ?

[John C. Smith]

Actually I've noticed that a lot of my sixties music (Mamas&Papas, Beatles, Beach Boys, etc) are quite short, and this is because of that standards set by radio stations during those times.

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by AKcrab:
I think it's the lack of attention span in our younger generations.
What was this thread about?

what was the question again...

Truthfully, you are 100% correct.

Also, as rjyu said, listen to TooL. They're one of the only groups that make me feel like I'm getting my $'s worth when buying a new CD ($20).

[tomdavidson69]

Originally posted by ryju:
Listen to TOOL and Sigur Ros

13m 56s for live version of Pushit (off Salival) - short songs my arse!!!! Have a look at the length of Elvis songs... Maybe it's to do with balance between "art expression" and "commercial viability" (i.e. radio play etc) and attention spans as previously mentioned..

[d4nth3m4n]

Originally posted by Powaqqatsi:
The question is: What is "alternative" music ?

and what the hell is it the alternative to?

[Sherwin]

Originally posted by Powaqqatsi:
The question is: What is "alternative" music ?

Alternative = rock music in which the guitarist hasn't learnt the art of the right-hand mute and is forced to spend his/her career in open-chord limbo.

[brapper]

'cause they're written short so that radio stations can still play 10 songs in a row or whatever their deal is, and then maximize their advertising revenue.

[mitchell_pgh]

Attention Span...

[residentEvil]

because they get paid to create a album/cd/tape. most get paid the same for 10 songs at 3 minutes or 15 songs at 4 minutes. and you know, a number of people this day and age are all about being lazy. so why do more work if it doesn't get you anything? so they do the smallest amount of work they can and still get paid.

[itai195]

I dunno, maybe Britney Spears can only be programmed to remember 3 minutes per song? I hear the next model is going to be able to do 3:10 though!

[spiky_dog]

that's why i stick to my classical, with movements often over 20min a piece. and general cohesion within the work.

[Zimphire]

Metal bands now adays aren't as proficient with their instruments I have found.

The whole "guitar solos are laaame" thing stemmed from players that didn't know how, so they bashed it.

The only metal band out now that I have liked is Black Label Society.

So what I am saying is, your new metal songs are missing the 3 minute long guitar solos.

[Logic]

Originally posted by ryju:
Listen to TOOL and Sigur Ros

Never heard of the first one but Sigurr�s

They have been invited to many of the late shows(Jay Leno, Letterman etc.) but they have declined all offers since they will not be allowed to play the whole song. That could be one reason, that bands needs to limit the time of a song to be able to get it aired on TV, and I guess the same applies to radio.

[Sherwin]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Metal bands now adays aren't as proficient with their instruments I have found.

The whole "guitar solos are laaame" thing stemmed from players that didn't know how, so they bashed it.

[Cipher13]

Why is music so short now? Because you're listening to the wrong music.

Just by chance, the song I was listening to (and am still listening to) when I clicked on this topic, is 24:14 long...

[daimoni]

Listen to Wire's 'Pink Flag' (released in 1977, before much of your 'Heavy Metal') and then complain about short songs.

It's all the fault of those 'Post-Punk' bands... and the so-called 'Alternative' groups who followed them.

Bah! I don't care for all of these genres. Everything from AC/DC to XTC, I simply file under 'Rock'.

I don't care if it's 'Indie-Pop', 'Thrash Metal', 'Kosmiche M�sik' or 'Post/Out-Rock', etc... I then use Smart Playlists to create sub-groupings based upon record label, personnel, city of origin, musical movement, producer, album cover artist, etc.)

[forkies]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
Why is music so short now? Because you're listening to the wrong music.

ding-ding-ding!

[ryju]

Originally posted by Logic:
Never heard of the first one but Sigurr�s

I am SHOCKED, usually it's the other way around. Tool is amazing, get their latest CD Lateralus for some amazing hard rock ballads. Most of their songs are around 8-12 minutes.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by ryju:
hard rock ballads.

[daimoni]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
Why is music so short now? Because you're listening to the wrong music.

Just by chance, the song I was listening to (and am still listening to) when I clicked on this topic, is 24:14 long...

Or he's listening to the right music at the wrong speed.

And longer songs != better songs. Just as more notes != better song. Sometimes less IS more. I've heard songs less than a minute in length that have expressed more than other songs which took nearly an hour to finally finish.

[zigzag]

Originally posted by daimoni:
Listen to Wire's 'Pink Flag' (released in 1977, before much of your 'Heavy Metal') and then complain about short songs.

Great album . . .

I don't think the songs have gotten shorter, I think olePigeon has gotten taller.

It's all relative. Short and sweet is good if that's what the song calls for. Long is good only if the musicians have the talent to pull it off. Punk happened in large part because things had gotten too long and self-indulgent. It goes in cycles.

[nonhuman]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
The only metal band out now that I have liked is Black Label Society.

Black Label Society rocks.

[CharlesS]

Originally posted by HotSoup:
Wow, 6.5 min. is long for me. I like my songs to be at most 4 min. If they go on to long, I often change them. Don't know why, just habit. I like a fast pacing in the mornings (when I listen to most my music).

Better not come to a recital where I'm playing then. I'm currently working on the Prokofiev Second Piano Concerto. It's about 30 minutes long. I'm also playing the Schumann Carnaval, which is somewhere between 25-30 minutes.

BTW, you don't know what you're missing.

[PER3]

These days I'm listening to Luigi Nono's 'La lontananza
nostalgica utopica futura' which clocks in at 61'40".
That's not too short, is it??

Perhaps the problem is that all of those things you are
complaining about being too short, are not actually music.

Originally posted by CharlesS:

BTW, you don't know what you're missing.

At least someone else here has their ears open.

[CrackedButter]

I have a Miles Davis song here that over 20 minutes long... I think it depends on the attention span of the peole listening and the willingness of the band who puts the effort in.

[ryju]

Originally posted by Zimphire:

Helpful as always.

[zigzag]

I'm presently listening to Guido Bandanna's "Elegy for Tomato(s)" which is 4 weeks, 2 days, 6 hours, 27 minutes long, give or take. Beat that.

[khufuu]

Originally posted by olePigeon:
Finally got around to converting my CDs to MP3. I noticed that as the copyright date got higher, the songs got shorter and the number of tracks less. My favorite genres of metal and rock were from 70s to 80s, on average, about 6 1/2 minutes a song. They ranged from about 3 minutes to 9 minutes (but most over 5 minutes), with about 14 tracks a CD.

Metal genre started to shorten around 1990 to an average of about 4 minutes a song. Rock shorted to about 3 minutes. The number of tracks also shortened from about 13 to 15 tracks, to about 10 to 12.

On top of that, we pay $15CD vs. $5 I used to pay for an LP or the $8 for a tape. I guess iTMS is making it a little better.

6 minute songs in the 70's was just a fad that finally went away.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by ryju:
Helpful as always.

Er, I was commenting on rock ballads...

Come on...

[ryju]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Er, I was commenting on rock ballads...

Come on...

You should be more verbal is all. I thought maybe I misused that word, did I?

[SeSawaya]

radio.

anything over 4 -4.5 mins is not liked by the radio format. They wont play it on "popular" stations.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Originally posted by daimoni:
Or he's listening to the right music at the wrong speed.

And longer songs != better songs. Just as more notes != better song. Sometimes less IS more. I've heard songs less than a minute in length that have expressed more than other songs which took nearly an hour to finally finish.

Thank you. Song lengths should be exactly as long as the song requires. Whether that takes 12 minutes or 2 minutes does not mean one is necessarily better than the other. There is a fine line between songwriting and musicianship.

Having said that, modern mainstream music of any type has seldom been longer than 3-5 minutes. Radio and TV audiences get bored easily. They suck.


Here's two songs, by the same band. One is 7:06 in length, the other 3:46. One has a 2-minute guitar solo, the other doesn't. Both are killer tunes, although with totally different styles. Both are Rock� in a big way.

THESE ARE AAC AUDIO. PLEASE OPTION-CLICK TO DOWNLOAD.

Earth, Sky & C.

0157: H7

greg

[realmeatychunks]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
Why is music so short now? Because you're listening to the wrong music.

Just by chance, the song I was listening to (and am still listening to) when I clicked on this topic, is 24:14 long...

Bah, you beat me. Mine's only 22:36.

edit: actually, I didn't realize. Side A is just 22:36, the entire thing is really just one song, so I guess thats 43:41. Gotta love Thick As A Brick.

[wataru]

I think there's a huge dependence on genre. I have some jazz songs that are over 20 minutes.

But overall I agree with whoever said that long != better. I bought the long version of Funky Town on the iTMS and I wish now that I had gotten the regular one. It's just too much filler.

[Sherwin]

Originally posted by ShortcutToMoncton:
Song lengths should be exactly as long as the song requires.