[Jansar]

Originally posted by L'enfanTerrible:
One thing that confused me a bit was Agent Smiths role in this movie. He is a loose program I suppose, and now he wants to eliminate Neo.. Perhaps he understands that Neo is supposed to become what he becomes and since Agent Smith is so sick of the Matrix he doesn't want to see it go on for a 7th time.

I always assumed that Smith just became a virus. I mean, he's evil and he constantly duplicates himself by infecting other "good" people. Neo's just his target of aggression.

I also remember Agent Smith talking about viruses in the first Matrix and how they multiply.

[davesimondotcom]

Originally posted by Jansar:
I always assumed that Smith just became a virus. I mean, he's evil and he constantly duplicates himself by infecting other "good" people. Neo's just his target of aggression.

Bingo.

[thunderous_funker]

Well, first I want to say that I think PookJP's review expresses my thoughts precisely on the movie as a movie.

The writers knew much of the fanbase of the original Matrix enjoyed it for its relatively challenging premise. This was completely gone in this up until a glorious 5 minute scene where one man says more stuff more quickly than has ever been in done in a move. The Architect's scene made the movie for me, or at least saved it from my completely hating it, but the trouble with the execution is that it left me slightly confused. I followed everything he said, but he said so much so quickly, that even as I write this I've forgotten exactly what it was he said. That scene felt like the writers took all the intellectual stuff they were going to sprinkel elesewhere, put it into a compactor, and served up an �ber-dense cocktail.

As a movie, it's pretty bad. Just a dumb action movie with lots of stylish action. On that note, I found it was literally "reloaded". Just more of the same. Nothing topped the first one, and when they tried (like the 100 Smith's fight) it looked like crap. What made the action sequences in the first movie so compelling was their realism. When you first see Trinity run up the wall and raise up and kick ass, your jaw dropped because you'd never seen anything look so real. In the second, all the kung-fu scenes reload that (but this time it's old hat to the viewser so it's cool but not mind-blowing), but when they try to take it to the next level, it looks like a cartoon as so loses the real impact. I just found myself saying, "meh, animation" instead of "how the hell did they do that?!?".

Like Pook said, it was the hints at the Big Ideas behind the story that really kept me from hating it. Same with the first movie. It's a dumb action movie, but hidden in it is this really interesting philosphical nugget. Unfortunately, they can't figure out a way of conveying thos Big Ideas other than some character offering a lecture on the topic. That sucks, but the Ideas are cool enough (and the actors compelling enough) that you tend to forgive them for resorting to that kind of exposition.

That said, let's talk about the Big Ideas.

I disagree with Millenium that some of the rogue programs are recycled Ones. That doesn't make any sense to me. Neo (and the other Ones) are not programs. They are the digital projections of autonomous human beings. Their course is set by controlling their surroundings thereby steering their choices, not because they were programmed to accomplish some task. They have Choice, but their Choices are predicted and controlled by controlling the Matrix around them. By using programs like the Oracle, Keymaker, Agents, etc..

Also, I don't believe Neo is The One until he makes himself The One. Remember in the first film, the Oracle says he's not it, but then he becomes it when he chooses to believe it (when Trinity convinces him that he must be The One because she loves him). It is at that moment that he becomes The One, not before.

The Oracle is a program that serves the purpose of steering potential people towards the path that will lead to the creation of The One. It is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

The twist is finding out that the Architect has been pulling the strings all along and that The One is not destined to end the war as Morpheus believed, but that The One merely serves the purpose the Matrix allows him--he is the remainder of the mathmatical anomoly that is assimilated by into the Matrix on a cycle that repeats because the system is inherently flawed.

Neo fvcks it up by being the first to choose love for one person over love for humanity.

The question remains, is Zion part of another Matrix? I must say that was my immediate reaction. Another Matrix to control the anamoly and extend the life cycle of the System before it must be rebooted. If Zion is actually the "real" world, I don't understand how the Architect can offer Neo the option to choose 23 people to recreate. That seems entirely too artificial and why should the Architect have the means to dictate such arbitrary restrictions on it unless it was just another Matrix. But I'm not sure.

Agent Smith is now AI. A sentient program that can replicate itself. He is able to choose for himself rather follow the narrow restrictions of his programming. He begun to break away in the first film and his interaction with Neo completed his metamorphosis. Now he seems to be in the Zion world--free from The Matrix as he wanted in the first film--but somehow not content. If Zion is the real world, why would Smith destroy it through sabotage rather than enjoy his newfound freedom?

Perhaps Smith is going to be The One (anomoly) that allows the Zion Matrix to be broken to reveal the real real world? That contigency unforseen and unaccounted for by the Architect because it was only made possible by Neo unexpected choices and the unforseen emergence of AI within the Agent program called Smith. The combination of AI Smith and Neo refusing to participate in rebooting The Matrix creates a scenario in which the Zion Matrix can be escaped.

Just thoughts, anyway.

[designbc]

Originally posted by thunderous_funker:
BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.

Just thoughts, anyway.

But good thoughts. To see Smith as the other anomaly is very interesting...

[davesimondotcom]

Anyone else notice that one of the cops radios in the big freeway scene says "One-Adam-Twelve."?

Also, most of the grafiti on the walls in the scene that starts with Neo/Oracle and ends with the New/100 Smiths fight says things like "One" and "D-Man." Kind of interesting.

I can sort of agree with those who think that some of the dialog was lacking. Whereas in the last film, things like the scene where Neo's (Anderson's) customers say things like, "Your my savior man. My own personal Jesus Christ." That entire scene is foreshadowing.

Maybe I need to see it again to see if that level of detail is in this one. Or perhaps I won't know until Revolution hits my screen.

One thing I do know is that it was nice to see this film in a theater that is NOT a Carmike Cinema! We are blessed with a brand new theater, the only one in the state owned by someone other than Carmike. (It's owned by Wallace Theaters.)

[Ozmodiar]

I don't buy the Matrix within a Matrix hypothesis. I believe that Zion is the real world, and that the Matrix is the artificial.

How can Neo control the sentinels outside of the Matrix? We know that part of Neo's program was copied onto Smith's when Neo jumped into him at the end of the first movie. We can assume, then, that Neo copied some of Smith's program onto himself. That makes both of them human/AI hybrids, unique among man and machine. When Smith exits the Matrix by replicating himself onto a human mind, he takes on a human form but he doesn't have a human psyche: he's still a program. I submit that real-world Smith and real-world Neo are both able to interact with machines outside of the Matrix because of their hybrid status.

Zion-born humans are entirely organic, but Matrix-born are, for lack of a better word, cyborgs. They must have some machine parts, otherwise they wouldn't be able to jack in. What if the hybrids can use the cybernetic portions of their brains to interact with machines in the real world? Smith was down in a bunker (or something) when the EMPs went off that crippled the five ships; I think Smith set the EMPs off with his mind and was thrown into a coma much like Neo became comatose after destroying the sentinels.

As for the succession of The Ones, I too disagree that former Ones have become programs. The anomaly isn't something that the Architect is particularly happy about - it is a blemish in his otherwise perfect program. In order to get rid of the anomaly, they allow The One to exist and fulfill a false prophecy that lets them take apart his code and try and figure out why the anomaly happens. They let him pick 23 humans out of the Matrix (Zion is always destroyed, and organic humans exterminated) to repopulate the real world, so the next anomaly has something for which to exist. The cycle will continue until they can keep the anomaly from occurring - once its existence is preventable, Zion will be no more.

[AB^2=BCxAC]

I just came back from seeing it... I dunno. The styles, effects, and the music were all very 1999.

My favourite character was the key-maker. The gratuitous rave scene, and sex, was to me only justifiable if it means in the next movie Trinity is pregnant. The architect was a neat plot twist, but it was hardly a good climax for the film. (Speaking of climaxes, that girl who gets an orgasm from eating a chocolate cake program... that was the most sexist thing I've seen in a Hollywood movie in years!).

I stayed for the preview after the credits... and that rain standoff was just horrible-looking.

What else can I say? As a commentary on society, I liked how they show that hegemonies even control dissent for their own benefit (Machines give Zion (aka. protesters) the impression they have a voice and make concessions to keep everyone pacified until they don't serve a use anymore -- more Foucault surveillance). But, really, the movie needed more plot mysteries for me to feel satisfied. It was just moving from A to B to C the whole time.

[L'enfanTerrible]

I think anyone who hates on the Matrix Reloaded because of the ... clone war heh is just looking for something to hate. It was never going to look perfect, because that just isn't possible.

[Adam Betts]

Originally posted by L'enfanTerrible:
I think anyone who hates on the Matrix Reloaded because of the ... clone war heh is just looking for something to hate. It was never going to look perfect, because that just isn't possible.

Agreed

[Jansar]

Originally posted by L'enfanTerrible:
I think anyone who hates on the Matrix Reloaded because of the ... clone war heh is just looking for something to hate. It was never going to look perfect, because that just isn't possible.

yes! critics that are there to highlight even unnoticable "flaws" ruin a great movie for others...even weirdo "mixin visuals" based his feelings about the movie on what his idiot friend said...the movie's not perfect, but get a grip, nothing is.

Originally posted by AB^2=BCxAC:
I just came back from seeing it... I dunno. The styles, effects, and the music were all very 1999.

Right...now tell me a movie that's 2003?

That's right.

[Nicko]

Originally posted by L'enfanTerrible:
I think anyone who hates on the Matrix Reloaded because of the ... clone war heh is just looking for something to hate. It was never going to look perfect, because that just isn't possible.

The first time I saw that I thought it was cool, I didn't even think about if I could tell if it was fake or not.

[shmerek]

I just saw reloaded and I would give it a it wasn't as mind blowing as the first one but that is a given, what I saw today is something I have seen before. As per the CGi some of it looked a bit fake but when I was a kid I didn't complain that the tauntuans on Hoth looked fact so whatever.

Fight sequences: could of been shorter I wished that they were a bit more violent and less balletic.

Rave/sex scene: didn't dig the rave bit that much, the sex scene was fine it didn't bother me but with an R rating you think we would at least get to see Trinity's rack.

Architect: very cool scene what I got out of it was that the screens were showing all the various thoughts that Neo was having. I don't believe the other "Ones" were Neo, that never crossed my mind until I read this thread and I reject that theory. I don't believe that there will be a matrix within a matrix conclusion, like everyone said it would be a cop out. The guy that Smith merged with; my take is that he basically hacked into his brain using whatever he gained when Neo was in him.


French guy: very funny when he started swearing in french sitting in a predominately french audience

I will see it again and look forward to the conclusion.

[Millennium]

Originally posted by AB^2=BCxAC:
I just came back from seeing it... I dunno. The styles, effects, and the music were all very 1999.

Given the fact that the Matrix is supposed to be emulating the year 1999, this makes good sense.

The gratuitous rave scene, and sex, was to me only justifiable if it means in the next movie Trinity is pregnant.

I don't know about that.

However, I've seen a lot of movies, and it follows that I've seen a lot of sex scenes. I've seen good sex scenes, bad sex scenes, scary sex scenes, sick sex scenes, hot sex scenes, cool sex scenes, and just about every other type of sex scene this side of pornography.

But this was the first time I'd ever seen a boring sex scene. I mean, I didn't think it was possible to screw up a sex scene that badly -no pun intended- but this one really takes the cake (again, no pun intended).

(Speaking of climaxes, that girl who gets an orgasm from eating a chocolate cake program... that was the most sexist thing I've seen in a Hollywood movie in years!).

Um, care to elaborate? The Merovignian altered the program of a cake to give an orgasm to whoever eats it. What, in and of itself, is sexist about that?

[NoteStomper]

Originally posted by Millennium:

Um, care to elaborate? The Merovignian altered the program of a cake to give an orgasm to whoever eats it. What, in and of itself, is sexist about that?

Is that how everyone saw it?
I saw it as he got her HORNY. She got up and left, then he said he had to go to the bathroom.
Later, Persephone ribs him about lipstick, he wipes his mouth and denies it. She then says "I wasn't saying it was on your mouth".

She also tells the surviving bodyguard "he's in the ladies' room!" after she pops the first one.

Am I reaching here? Or did I notice this?

[thunderous_funker]

Originally posted by Ozmodiar:
How can Neo control the sentinels outside of the Matrix? We know that part of Neo's program was copied onto Smith's when Neo jumped into him at the end of the first movie. We can assume, then, that Neo copied some of Smith's program onto himself. That makes both of them human/AI hybrids, unique among man and machine. When Smith exits the Matrix by replicating himself onto a human mind, he takes on a human form but he doesn't have a human psyche: he's still a program. I submit that real-world Smith and real-world Neo are both able to interact with machines outside of the Matrix because of their hybrid status.

Zion-born humans are entirely organic, but Matrix-born are, for lack of a better word, cyborgs. They must have some machine parts, otherwise they wouldn't be able to jack in. What if the hybrids can use the cybernetic portions of their brains to interact with machines in the real world? Smith was down in a bunker (or something) when the EMPs went off that crippled the five ships; I think Smith set the EMPs off with his mind and was thrown into a coma much like Neo became comatose after destroying the sentinels.

Hmm, good thought. That could be it. It would fit the data and escape the matrix in a matrix thing which I agree would be a slight dissappointment since it's predictable. Of course, all the movies/books that the Matrix loves to borrow ideas from worked on that premise so....

One thing still bothers me, though. If Zion is the real world, how could the Architect offer Neo an option so carefully restricted for saving it? Why 23? Why 16 men and 7 women? What's to prevent Neo from saving hundreds or thousands, or at least as many as he can? Does that mean the machines would be instructed to allow him to gather just that exact group and then leave? Leave where? It's all so controlled that I have to think something is up. If Zion is real, then the Architect might be lying about the options available (perhaps the other door leads to a fake Zion whereas Neo's choice offers a chance for the real Zion?)

As I remember it, the Architect said that saving Trinity would mean that the Matrix would suffer a total system crash--causing the death of everyone plugged into it. If Zion is real and Smith and Neo can fight the machines, it could mean that humans could overthrow the severely weakened machines (weakened because they will survive the Matrix crash, the Architect said, but at a very low level without the energy generated by the Matrix-bound humans.) Perhaps that is the revolution?



Ah well, it's fun to speculate. Luckily, the Matrix has this nugget of a Big Idea nestled in what would be an otherwise mindless Roller Coaster style action movie. That is what makes it so fun despite it's substantial flaws.

[The Placid Casual]

Just got back from the movie... Overall I was very impressed.

Please excuse the 'Stream of Though' nature of this post. (Most if it will probably make no sense!)

A few points:

The rave/love scene. A bit long, but necessary to the overal 'feel' of the film. As someone mentioned, it showed that humans were organic and also to me unpredictable. This ties in with the whole 'choice/control' theme...

Although, the humans are clearly kept in the dark by the council about their impending doom. Could this be a parallel being drawn between our own governments being as bad as the control system of the machines?

Anyway, not elegant, and a bit hit and miss, but I felt it was great contrast to the slickness of the machine based matrix scenes.

CGI. Hmmm, the 100 Smiths scene made me cringe. At first. But now I've thought about it, I'm not sure it wasn't meant to look bad...

In the first movie when we saw Neo and Morpheus fighting in the 'construct', we saw the crew veiwing on a screen with dodgy animation... They were looking in to the contruct from a 'different reality' (all be it the real one.) I got the same feeling when seeing the scene... Like the audience was 'looking in', and were thus meant to feel in part detatched, the ultimate suspension of disbelief... Meh, maybe it's just me being an apologist or obtuse!

The Chase scene: Bastards, utter bastards. I have been looking for a cheap Ducati 996 for the last 3 months. What are the chances of me getting one now!! Overall the bike scenes and the chase were awesome, and pretty mindblowing effects wise...

Characters French Guy. Hmm, I found his attitude to be one of the best features of the film! I found him to be aloof, and I really got the feeling he was an exile, bored of life... Amusing himself by analysing humans and torturing them in his own way... A way that had become distorted over time.

He was indulging in human emotions and experience even though he knew that although they were 'flawed', they were all he had. He had himself lost his humanity, this vicarious connection was all he had left of his former self...

I felt this linked with Cipher in the first film very well, when he accepted the matrix even though he knew it was fake...

Whoever said that the Keymaker was one of the best characters, I have to agree. I really felt he was a 'program' designed with a definite purpose, yet strangely human...

Overall, I feel that the 'humanity' in a world of computer world of programs, as a theme, is very interesting... Each bad character seems to emaphasise a small bit of human nature, while at the same time rejecting it as flawed, 'only human'... This would be culminated if Agent Smith is indeed 'make' in to a human character in revolutions...

Conclusions Self determination and choice forming the basis of the film... utterly predictable. But shown in a very, very absorbing way...

"Ask not 'what you are to do', but instead why you chose it..." This speach by the Oracle made the movie for me... don't know why, but it effected me rather profoundly after I left the film...

/rant over! Sorry!

Going to see the film again tomorrow, so I guess I'll have even more random thoughts then!

Peace,

Marc

[AB^2=BCxAC]

Originally posted by NoteStomper:
Is that how everyone saw it?
I saw it as he got her HORNY. She got up and left, then he said he had to go to the bathroom.
Later, Persephone ribs him about lipstick, he wipes his mouth and denies it. She then says "I wasn't saying it was on your mouth".

Am I reaching here? Or did I notice this?

I'm not going to open up the can of worms about representations of female sexuality throughout the movie, or through-out film history. I'm just going to say that when the POV turned her into streaming numbers and went erotically between her legs to show her orgasm from eating chocolate, and then she's sent to the bathroom (where the French guy soon followed to get his blow-job), it was suppose to be funny, but my gut reaction was that it was too sexist because it was trying to be funny. Sure the French guy was supposed to be a sexist pig, but the POV seemed to indicate that we might enjoy seeing things the sexist pig way. It was over the top. Of course, I'm not even saying that many women would agree with me. Some girls watch Charlie's Angels and see male-orientated fiction masquerading as token feminism (where are women portrayed as unrealistic sex-objects with limited empowerment and dangerous characterizations) and other girls will see women who are vibrant, exiting, and empowered. Not everyone sees the same thing.

But hey, at least they showed a woman having an orgasm alone, even though the guy was there by chocolate program proxie. That's pretty rare.

[ckohler]

Originally posted by Jansar:
I always assumed that Smith just became a virus. I mean, he's evil and he constantly duplicates himself by infecting other "good" people. Neo's just his target of aggression. I also remember Agent Smith talking about viruses in the first Matrix and how they multiply.

You might be right. Did anybody else happen to notice the little visual cue when the hundred agent Smiths started rushing in to fight Neo?

The camera was looking down on the group as they were flooding in from both sides. The pattern they formed on the ground looked just like a virus spreading.

[Nicko]

Speaking of the keymaker... wasn't his office just awsome? It was a metaphor unto itself!

[gorgonzola]

The best review of the movie can be found here.

I don't agree with everything he said, but it's very funny, and he definitely pokes a lot of holes in it. I thought the movie was at the very least entertaining; that said, however, the first one was far greater for many reasons that people have pointed out already and that are mentioned in the article.

(BTW, sorry if someone has posted that review already, but I just skipped to the last page of this thread...)

[Nicko]

Originally posted by ckohler:
You might be right. Did anybody else happen to notice the little visual cue when the hundred agent Smiths started rushing in to fight Neo?

The camera was looking down on the group as they were flooding in from both sides. The pattern they formed on the ground looked just like a virus spreading.

Good point! Also during the fight Smith is forced to multiply even more, converting all the humans around him that he can all for the sake of getting revenge on Neo. It is interesting to note that he is the only program who's motivation is dictated by 'human' emotions such as revenge, while programs like the architect and the oracle depend on logic.

[Timo]

Originally posted by NoteStomper:
Is that how everyone saw it?
I saw it as he got her HORNY. She got up and left, then he said he had to go to the bathroom.
Later, Persephone ribs him about lipstick, he wipes his mouth and denies it. She then says "I wasn't saying it was on your mouth".

Am I reaching here? Or did I notice this?

That's how I read it.

[thunderous_funker]

Originally posted by gorgonzola:
The best review of the movie can be found here.

BWWAAAAHAAAHAAA!! That is truly a marvelous and scathing review. I have to agree with him. Excess is truly at the heart of the problems with this movie.

The plot was as thin as the dialog. This might be a spoiler: the dramatic climax of the movie consists of Neo having a conversation with Colonel Sanders, in which the Secret of the Eleven Herbs and Spices is finally revealed. Then Jason Alexander appears with a bucket of Spicy Nuggets. No, wait...Neo has to make a choice. Two doors. Behind one, a lady. Behind the other, a tiger. No, wait...

Nope, that's it. A sixty-year-old cliche. Why couldn't we see Neo and Trinity at the air field, one last embrace, a last kiss, "We'll always have Zion", and she gets on that plane with Victor Laszlo while Neo walks off into the fog with Agent Smith, friends at last?

LOL, that really made me laugh.

[L'enfanTerrible]

The review that Gorgonzola linked to was a bit funny, but I don't think it was fair to the movie or the readers of this so-called review. Firstly, don't bitch to me that your Pepsi cost to much, cos I don't give a fuk. Also how many words does this anal-retentive a$$pole want to make out of the word "suck".. "Freudian slip" perhaps? I think it's ironic that he bitched about the "excess" of the MR, yet he went on for two thousand words or so, mostly about the trailers.

Let me say this, I am usually very susceptible to really bad movies, they make me cringe. I even thought the original Matrix had $hitty dialogue and dragged on through the middle. Reloaded didn't strike me as bad in the slightest. The acting/dialogue was terrific for an action/sci-fi movie, and the film has perfect balance, like it was a ballet. There was enough roughness in there as well, it was balletic, but Neo busts some heads, and even the Keymaker gets shot to sh!t, a la Godfather

Anyways, that reviewers analness made me pissed so theres my rant. Goodnight

[Millennium]

Originally posted by AB^2=BCxAC:
I'm just going to say that when the POV turned her into streaming numbers and went erotically between her legs to show her orgasm from eating chocolate, and then she's sent to the bathroom (where the French guy soon followed to get his blow-job), it was suppose to be funny, but my gut reaction was that it was too sexist because it was trying to be funny.

You know, I'm not sure it was supposed to be funny. Most people -myself included- laugh, because it's so over-the-top and trite in its own way. But I'm not sure that was actually the intent. I think that the Wachowski Brothers actually intended the scene to be frightening, not funny. I mean, think about it: this guy basically has the ability to control people, essentially undermining their free will.

The Merovignan is a scumbag. This scene was intended to show him as such. Should the Wachowski Brothers have pulled the punch, because some people might feel offended when confronted with the depths of depravity to which some people (or programs) can sink?

Sure the French guy was supposed to be a sexist pig, but the POV seemed to indicate that we might enjoy seeing things the sexist pig way.

I don't think we were supposed to be entertained; I think we were supposed to be repulsed.

It was over the top.

...and there is the fatal flaw in the scene, because it got in the way of the intended effect. Bad directing, yes, but not sexist humor, or at least, that was not its intent.

And hey, it would be far from the only case of bad directing in the movie. That was the major problem this time around, actually; in the hands of more capable direction, it could have been an absolute masterpiece. As it was, the movie was so-so at best.

[Gametes]

Anybody else notice in the beginning when we first meet agent smith he says "It's happening again as before...yes". I think this may reference the cyclic nature of the one's journey. Perhaps Smith is more aware of this than we thought?

My largest criticism is the oft-mentioned duration of each scene was too long. The illusion of brevity could have been created if the dialogue was more paced, even if in total time it was the same length. The authors need to try revising their writing at least once. The french guy could have been severely trimmed, as could each fight scene. Anyway.

After that, I'd like to say that I only get into the matrix for it's philosophy, after the animatrix and the philosophy essays came out. This movie did have alot of that, but it seems so clearly divided into action/philosophy segments that the flow was totally off. I'd say this is probably the most important of the three movies but not the most watchable.

Lastly (I have 10 pages of opinion, ain't self-censure great?), Neo's personal growth was pervalent throughout the first film. Every single fight scene existed to demonstrate his improving confidence and abilities. every one. At the end of the first film, he can even fly. Growth in the second film? none. I would have much preferred if he starts just being able to fly, and steadily through the film he becomes able to do more and more amazing things. Like, maybe he realizes he can hover. Then he thinks, "why not teleport? it's not real, after all". Then after seeing the twins, he realizes he can go through objects, a breakthrough he sortof makes by saving trinity at the end.
I don't know, impress me, Wakowskis. But Neo should be becoming more and more incredible over time, culminating in another "oh my god" moment like in the first.
Yet, all we get is: flying. He's less capable than before even, since the agents were upgraded.

Anyway, I really liked the movie nonetheless for its content. It was just arrogantly long, and lacking in character growth all around.

[Gametes]

I'd also like to add that the scariest part of all this is that they made Revolutions at the same time, virtually guaranteeing that the third will be just as mediocre as this one. Always wait for feedback, my friends.

OTOH, the two towers was twice better than the first...

[dreilly1]

I just saw the new movie yesterday. I was impressed with it, but I do admit that I wasn't expecting much from the movie, since sequels generally suck. (Now X-Men 2 was a good sequel, but I digress).

Anyway, does anyone remember how they had to shut down downtown Sydney to film the finale for the next movie? Something about some helicopter stunts that were too dangerous to have people out on the streets while they were going on. That freeway scene kicked ass in Matrix Reloaded, I can't wait to see what they do in the next movie to top it!

[forkies]

Originally posted by Millennium:
I don't think we were supposed to be entertained; I think we were supposed to be repulsed.

I agree with what you are saying in that I think the intent was to show him as an ******* and his being a huge jerk to everyone

INCLUDING Persephone

I believe this to be one of the main purposes of the scene, where we see the cause (his jerkiness) and its effect (her helping Neo et al out), just as she says to him later, "cause & effect."

That is what I took from it, there's probably more to it regarding how he manupilates the people and has become bored with the matrix, etc.

Basically...WTF is up with this sexist take?

[willed]

Quick question - at the end, did they say the whole of Zion was wiped out with only one survivor? Or was it just the battle that had only one survivor? Is it too late to save Zion?

[Aragorn]

that battle had only one survivor, the guy in the coma next to neo (i.e. Agent Smith).

[willed]

Originally posted by Aragorn:
that battle had only one survivor, the guy in the coma next to neo (i.e. Agent Smith).

Yeah, but was it the battle for the city - ie has the city fallen; was the battle at the gates of Zion?

[Aragorn]

The plan was to stop them before they got to the city, to meet them way ahead with some ships. So Zion still has about 48 hours before the machines reach it.

[PiNoYBoY82]

ok, here's my take.

they really are in the real world (i think the matrix in a matrix is kind of disappointing) and due to neo and agent smith's swapping of "code" they are human/AI hybrids as previously stated in this discussion. In the scene where the assassin is hiding and waiting to stab neo, he is cutting himself. This is because agent smith has never felt "pain" before and is intrigued by it.

With neo choosing what the other "the ones" didn't choose, the architect will go through with destroying everyone connected to the matrix... BUT agent smith will eventually replicate himself within the matrix and in a way "save" those people from being disconnected - thus leading to the scene in the matrix revolutions teaser where there are TONS of agent smiths... The people will all be disconnected but there minds maybe are somehow saved by agent smith.
They will be "disconnected" by the matrix but once agent smith is taken care of, perhaps the minds will be restored.

I'm not too clear on how neo collapsed into a coma... it could be that he is somehow jacked into the system all the time and he jus screwed himself over... haha... i think neo is gonna have a kid on the way because the rave/sex scene was way too drawn out.

But basically, the architect hasn't taken into account the rogue agent smith and he's gonna screw everything up for the system.

Just my take on the ending...

[Ozmodiar]

I was also a little confused about Zion at the end. I was under the impression that the machines had taken the city, and that Bane was among the only survivors. In the trailers, though, they are still clearly fighting to save Zion (we get to see that warmech in some action).

[Nicko]

Originally posted by Ozmodiar:
I was also a little confused about Zion at the end. I was under the impression that the machines had taken the city, and that Bane was among the only survivors. In the trailers, though, they are still clearly fighting to save Zion (we get to see that warmech in some action).

No, there were a group of hovercrafts that were to intercept and slow down some of the sentinals, but their EMP was set off early by Smith(?) and they were massacred. So I presume the next movie just continues from where they left off, Neo in a coma.

[The Placid Casual]

Posted this in another thread, but I guess it is just a valid here....

I noticed in the Revolutions trailer, something that may, or may not be important...

When Agent Smith is shown laughing, he would appear to be in the appartment of The Oracle, which we saw in the first movie, and Neo visited in the second... Hmmm.

Could explain some things...

[Ozmodiar]

The Brothers have said that since Glorie Foster has passed away, the Oracle will be taking on a "different form" in Revolutions. Seraph is in the next movie; I'm curious to see how that part of the film resolves itself.

[Aragorn]

Yah, you can see the new form of her in the Matrix Game. I'll try and take a screen of it later so you guys can see it.

Serpah also battle's some other people, such as Niobe, but it's only friendly, like Neo's. I assume Seraph joins neo and such.


*****SPOILER ALERT*****


According to Enter The Matrix, The Oracle had to change forms. She chose to help Neo and the French guy told her that if she did she would pay. She doesn't go into anymore detail but I assume because of that she had to change forms. Therefore she has her newer form. What I thought was interesting was that she chose to help Neo, therefore looks like we have programs siding on boths sides also.

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by Ozmodiar:
I was also a little confused about Zion at the end. I was under the impression that the machines had taken the city, and that Bane was among the only survivors. In the trailers, though, they are still clearly fighting to save Zion (we get to see that warmech in some action).

I got the same impression, and had the same thought... they said "Once the machines were inside, it wasn't a battle... it was a massacre". Pretty misleading - makes you think Zion has pretty much fallen.

[MindFad]

Just saw it last night. IN THE VERY FRONT ROW, ON THE VERY END CORNER. The aboslute shittiest seat you could have. But I toughed it out.

The movie -- well, I liked it. It wasn't bad. It was entertaining, as I expected; I'm intrigued enough to see the next one, so they obviously did their job. Keanu ... well, I kept waiting for him to say "dude" or "whoa" after every line. Just the way he sounds, I guess. As for fighting scenes, they felt really tired after about the third one. Get in leather or trnch coat, cue techno music, commence bullet time -- and five-ten minutes later we'll take you back to the story. Not that I don't like the bullet time, but it was just used a whole damn lot, and it felt like their reason for even making half the whole movie (which it probably was ).

SPOILER

My three favorite scenes/effects: one the Agent Smith attack scene (with the fifty of 'em) for all of the compositing and effects that had to be done. Those were some tough shots to pull off, and I was impressed for the most part. Two: the semi collision on the highway. Having to put together the two smashing truck models and compositing all of that other jive on top -- it was a very nice job, IMO. Three: Trinity flying through the window in the begining. Really liked that -- one of those shots that took a long while to perfect, I'm sure. They do their bullt time well.

[/SPOILER]

I'll definitely see the next one ... after I see this one again with better seats.

[InterfaceGuy]

Originally posted by Aragorn:
According to Enter The Matrix, The Oracle had to change forms. She chose to help Neo and the French guy told her that if she did she would pay. She doesn't go into anymore detail but I assume because of that she had to change forms. Therefore she has her newer form. What I thought was interesting was that she chose to help Neo, therefore looks like we have programs siding on boths sides also.

Here is the transcript from that scene in the game.

http://www.moviexplosion.com/niobe.html

Here is a pic of the new Oracle.

http://www.darkhorizons.com/news03/mary.jpg

[InterfaceGuy]

Revolutions is supposed to be playing at Imax starting Friday, June 6th. I'll be going back for a second serving at that time.

[Ozmodiar]

Originally posted by InterfaceGuy:
Here is the transcript from that scene in the game.

http://www.moviexplosion.com/niobe.html

Here is a pic of the new Oracle.

http://www.darkhorizons.com/news03/mary.jpg

To people who have finished Enter the Matrix: is there any conclusive evidence that the real world is not an OverMatrix (I'm guessing, based on the above transcript, that there is not)?

Also, The Oracle's "new form" is just another actress? Curious.

[ShotgunEd]

Ok, just saw it heres what i picked up that hasnt been mentioned here.

I agree that neo is now sharing some code with Agent Smith, thats the reason for the coma. We hear Smith set off an EMP blast early, thus inducing his coma, Neo stopped the machines with what looked very much like an overloaded EMP blast, inducing his own coma. Keanu said in an interview that it wasnt going to be a matrix within a matrix.

I thought the film rocked. there were a few dud scenes but all in all i found it to be better than the first. Time will tell.

Oh, and regards the christianity thing, i thought the bit where Link said not everyone believes what you believe to morpheus was very good. His reply being "my beliefs dont require them to."

[Angus_D]

Originally posted by I Bent My Wookiee:
Because in the first movie was written as a self contained script, now they are trying to add to that story but messing things up that they set up in the first.

I heard that the movie was originally conceived as a trilogy, actually.

[The Placid Casual]

Just got back from seeing the film a second time. I stayed in the cinema and saw the trailer for Revolutions after the credits...

My take on 'Revolution':

"Only Neo can save us from him" Morpheus says this about saving Zion from Smith. (In the voice over...)

I think the answers may lie in the fact that Smith says Neo "Altered him, wrote over something, de-restricted something" in his speech just before the first big '100 Smith' fight in Reloaded...

I surmise that Smith has exceeded his 'purpose' and has realised this, and in doing so gained the power to take the Matrix as his own...

However, to so, he has to kill Neo in the 'Real' world as he realises he can't do it in the Matrix, Thus he takes control of Bain and tries to Kill Neo...

Still doesn't explain Neo's real world powers though...

Peace,

Marc

[Simon X]

Oh dear. What a load of pants.

Just saw the film earlier today and thought I'd post my 2p worth. Haven't bothered reading all of this thread.

Ropey character animation in those fight scenes and some other places.

That freeway chase and fight just went on, 'n on. 'n on.

Monica Bellucci as Parenthesis (I know, it's Persephone) - undeniably a babe, but she seemed out of place and her dialogue and accent didn't work well.

Neo having a good feel inside Trinity. Ahh, bless him. So sweet.

The rave scene sucked and that whole Zion scene felt like it was from another film.

What little story there was bored me.

And all those damn speeches! I just wanted to stand up and shout, "Yada, Yada, Yada."

Vis-�-vis.
Ergo.

[Krypton]

Just two things I'd like to add:

1. The guy also in a coma at the end, I was sure he looked very much like Cipher from the first film but with hair (and that big tattoo) - someone mentioned 'Bain' who was that?

2. When the Architect said there had been 5 'Ones' before Neo, I was under the impression the Architect asked Neo what I thought and Neo paused and then said that no one knew how many there had been - leading to the cyclic nature of Zion being destroyed and the anomaly coming and going.

Anyhow, the film seems to have meant something to different to everyone

[Tatran68]

Yeah I noticed that too. Bain and Cipher both had goatees. What does this mean? People with goatees are evil.

- Ca$h