[naphtali]

Hi guys

My Epson photo printer just died, so I've got to get a new printer for home and I hope you can help me out with some recommendations!

I've loved the Epson printers I've had over the years - reliable (probably helps that I print frequently?), great prints etc. But the big killers are the speed and the really expensive ink cartridges, and that got me thinking about laser printers for some time

I print about 400-600 A4 pages (illustrations, cheques, documents) a month, and maybe a third or so has colour. That's just a guesstimate of course

So I'm looking for:
1) Black & Colour
2) Relatively quick
3) Low printing costs
4) Reliable, good service
5) Reasonably quiet (in my room)
6) Not too big, and don't need A3
7) Hopefully much below US$450, say US$150? The lower the better, of course
8) Accept small paper sizes, cheque-size - 9cm x 14cm?
9) Waterproof and photo-quality prints will be a plus

I've read some things about some laser toners containing carcinogenic elements. How true is that? If that's not a worthy concern, what models are good?

I've also been looking at solid ink printers (ie Fuji Xerox Phasers), but I've also read some negative comments about their bad service. Does anybody have any experience with them? Also, what is a good model that fits in the budget? Sounds like really cool technology, but the setup costs are really high compared to the other printing tech. Is it worth it?

I'm not terribly keen on inkjets because of the catridge costs, but I'm open to it if there's a kick-ass, money-saving model!

Thank you for your help!

[Veltliner]

How many photos do you print? Could you consider an online lab? I don't want to buy a low-end inkjet for photos.

For text, a laser printer is the best solution.

I don't care for all-in-ones. But it depends on your quality demands. If you want to print snaps, that might be OK. For more serious work... My second last computer had a free Epson all-in-one coming with it. Unpacked it, looked at it, repacked it, sold it.

Good inkjets are pro inkjets like the Epson Stylus Pro 3800 for 1200. Can put out gallery quality.

A decent one I heard was the Epson R 800. But i can't recommend it, as I don't know anybody who used it, and you can read bad stuff about it like clogging nozzles, if you don't print regularly. And if ink cost is an issue.

Here is a review:

Epson R800 Review

[naphtali]

Thank you very much for your help!

I'm not particularly keen on ink-jets - haven't faced the problem of clogged print heads due to frequent printing, but the cost of ink is really dreadful.
Like you I'm don't care much for all-in-ones either cos I've got a kick-ass scanner and photo printer from my brother.

This new one would be the shared family workhorse for notes, cheques, illustrations (with colour) and maybe decent product photos. Till now all that has been handled (very expensively - ink) by an Epson Stylus Photo 895, so now I'm looking for a versatile printer that has low running costs


I'm very intrigued by the colour ink system, but I've also read that each power cycle results in massive ink wastage. Does anyone have any experience with the Phaser 8560 series? I should be calling Fuji Xerox up tomorrow and going about various stores to have a look at what's on sale


Please keep the suggestions coming!


P.S: Thanks for the cool link! Lots of interesting stuff

[OreoCookie]

Do you need your printer to be a photo printer? If the answer is no, we have an HP OfficeJet K550 we're very happy with. It's very fast and can output photos in decent quality. But it's a work horse, not a specialized photo printer.

On the other hand, no specialized photo printer is meant to print a lot of text.

So if you need quality prints in color, I'd invest in a cheap laser + an inkjet. If you don't need pristine photos, the K550 is a very good choice.

[Veltliner]

To add: if you want to print photos, you need an inkjet. For the foreseeable future.

[ginoledesma]

Originally Posted by naphtali 

So I'm looking for:
1) Black & Colour
2) Relatively quick
3) Low printing costs
4) Reliable, good service
5) Reasonably quiet (in my room)
6) Not too big, and don't need A3
7) Hopefully much below US$450, say US$150? The lower the better, of course
8) Accept small paper sizes, cheque-size - 9cm x 14cm?
9) Waterproof and photo-quality prints will be a plus

For the above-mentioned specs, here're some I can think of:

Samsung CLP-300/CLP-300N -- Cheap (this is frequently on sale in the $150 range), but on the slow side with average quality for text and photo

HP Color LaserJet 1600 -- Cheap, good text quality, average photo/colour quality, cost per page is pretty decent; sadly, Windows-only. It works under Mac OS X, but at the cost of quality and performance.

Samsung CLP-510N -- Good performance (4-pass printer), comes with a duplexer, network-capable, photo quality could be better

One thing to note is that none of these printers can spit out superb photo-quality prints. They're decent enough for internal business use, but nowhere near great.

[naphtali]

Went to the various showrooms and resellers today to take a look at Fuji Xerox, Samsung, HP and Canon. Exhausting traveling all over the place, but learnt a few things from them:

HP and Canon share Canon components
Fuji Xerox and Lexmark share Fuji Xerox components
There's another duo I can't remember off hand

Lower-end laser printers might not really be worthwhile in the long run, especially for heavier printing needs - toners for such models tend to be more expensive, ala razors/inkjet profit model

Factor in hidden costs like drum and fuser replacement costs

On that note, I'm not sure if how good/bad HP/Canon toner design is - drum is on individual toners, so you replace it at the same time. Higher costs/toner, but perhaps constant maintenance works out better?

[naphtali]

HP and Canon apparently do not have much street-cred around here - higher costs, lower print qualities compared to other brands at the same price. Even at resellers that sold all the major brands and even though the margins on Fuji Xerox are supposedly razor thin, they were all surprisingly unanimous in their support for FX.

And as you guys said, the Samsungs had really attractive prices but quite horrible prints.

The cheque printing turned out to be a sticky point. Many models seemed to have trouble handling the 7" x 3.5" format, even with manual feeding. I've cut out more sheets in that size and I guess I'll go back tomorrow to test print some more.

Based on my needs and recommendations from the various places, it seems my choices are down to:

- Fuji Xerox DocuPrint C2100 (US$640) and C3210 (US$905):
Both share the same sets of normal and high-yield toners
C3210 has duplex built-in, faster print-speeds, higher DPI (true 1200 vs 9600 x 600 emulated) and support for Adobe PostScript 3

QN - How important is PostScript? I know there's the thing about not needing it if you don't know about it. But what's it really good for?

- Lexmark C532N (US$490):
Supposedly the same internals as the C2100, but with a different exterior. Somehow it looks far more cluttered, less accessible? I'm concerned about the cheque-printing too, cos it seems to have a different manual feeding mechanism from the C2100. Apparently a hot item with organisations and gov organisations.


What do you guys think?

[Veltliner]

Ink-wise: if you buy a quality printer, buy the ink from the manufacturer, even if it's more expensive.

All those cheaper ink brands are cheaper for a reason: they are cheaper.

So, if you are doing your cost estimates, don't save on ink by buying 3rd party. Because it's the ink you'll see. It makes the picture.

[NewOldbie]

I've been using a Xerox Solid Ink printer (Phaser 8200) for the last 5 years. I am pretty happy with it but have noticed the output (photos) takes on a reddish cast if left out for a period of time (month or so). This may be caused by 3rd party solid ink that I use.

We are looking at purchasing two more solid ink printers at the office. Solid ink is pretty easy to refill, you don't have to worry about trash (just cubes of ink).

Drawbacks: Printer must be kept on at all times or you waste ink when the printer reservoir is flushed on power up.

[anselm]

Ink. Laser printers generate potentially unhealthy dust. This claim is highly controversial but it`s great that there is an alternative: Ink printers.

[naphtali]

Originally Posted by NewOldbie 

I've been using a Xerox Solid Ink printer (Phaser 8200) for the last 5 years. I am pretty happy with it but have noticed the output (photos) takes on a reddish cast if left out for a period of time (month or so). This may be caused by 3rd party solid ink that I use.

We are looking at purchasing two more solid ink printers at the office. Solid ink is pretty easy to refill, you don't have to worry about trash (just cubes of ink).

Drawbacks: Printer must be kept on at all times or you waste ink when the printer reservoir is flushed on power up.

I'm really interested in the tech too, but could it be too much of an overkill for home? 400-500 pages / month? It has a rather high upfront cost and the FX folks think it's too much for my needs?

Also, does the machine take up a lot of power? Keeping it on all the time would definitely add to the running costs, so how long does it take for the cheapness of the ink to pay for all that?


@anselm Am / Was worried about that too but between the high running cost of inkjets and the high setup cost of solid ink printers (and also electrical and maintenance costs) I don't have much of a choice.

I've heard that there's going to be a new game-changing printing technology coming out early 2009 - Memjet - that's supposed to be really fast and cheap. So maybe I should think about getting a stop-gap printer?

[ginoledesma]

In your price range, you're opening up to more printers. I've been pretty happy with Fuji Xerox and Konika Minolta printers, but these are already in the higher-end, office-workgroup market. I'd stick to getting a dedicated photo printer for prints that need to look superb. Whatever the case you'll be spending a bit (paper + ink) to achieve the best results anyhow, more than any color laser printer can deliver.

Dye-subs can deliver stunning prints, though the ones that can print on larger paper don't come cheap.

[naphtali]

Ok I've pretty much settled for the Fuji-Xerox DocuPrint C2100 - paid a deposit for it!

It's almost the same as the slightly better C3210 model, except for the lack of PostScript 3 support, faster prints etc.

Will I regret not getting the PostScript 3 support? Should I get the 3210 for that reason instead?

[anselm]

naphtali:

You can place your laser printer in a room where you`re not working and connect it via ethernet.

[naphtali]

Originally Posted by ginoledesma 

In your price range, you're opening up to more printers. I've been pretty happy with Fuji Xerox and Konika Minolta printers, but these are already in the higher-end, office-workgroup market. I'd stick to getting a dedicated photo printer for prints that need to look superb. Whatever the case you'll be spending a bit (paper + ink) to achieve the best results anyhow, more than any color laser printer can deliver.

Dye-subs can deliver stunning prints, though the ones that can print on larger paper don't come cheap.

Let's hope the Memjet stuff comes out sooner than later! If it's anything it's hyped up to be, it's going to be really awesome! If anyone's curious about this stuff, they have a site (http://www.memjet.com) with videos and a little write-up.

Thank you everyone for all your help! Been a huge learning experience

[naphtali]

@anselm

Thank you for the suggestion! I'm definitely considering a move elsewhere, especially since it's a shared family printer too.

For now, the cable breakout box thingy and modem, and thus the AirPort Extreme are all in my room, so I would like to continue sharing the printer wirelessly.


Edit: I've spoken to a relative who's in design and he's rooting for the PostScript - apparently it makes a significant difference. Especially makes sense considering that the 2100 doesn't seem to be upgradeable

So I'll be going for the 3210. Thank you all for your help! This has been quite an eye-opener

[ginoledesma]

Ahh, so you've already decided to go for the PostScript-enabled printer. Most people IN design will want printers having PostScript, since chances are the software they use (and their very job) relies on it. PostScript 3 has better support for colors, transparency, more fonts, and the like. But... for those not in the pre-press industry, PDF gives you most of the benefits PostScript offers. The areas where you would normally be concerned for requiring PostScript would be transparency and color management.

Not saying you shouldn't go for it, though, since you can afford it, and don't mind spending for it for peace of mind. So long as you're happy with the device, that's what matters most.

[NewOldbie]

Most of the printers are energy star rated and go into "sleep" when you are not using them. Power consumption should be okay.

Just looked it up, average consumption is 230W, max is 1500W.

Kind of power hungry . . . dones't say about when it is in sleep mode, think it is 150W.

[naphtali]

@NewOldbie

I assume you're referring to the solid ink printer? Yeah that was one of the factors that turned me away from that model


Collected my new 3210 on Friday and boy was it huge! I think I can easily fit into the box it came with

I've been busy setting it up and playing with it, configuring a workflow so that it's easy for my father.

Everything's great so far; just wish it had better Mac support (Mac drivers are old and not as complete as the Windows ones) and more sensible custom paper size selection - saving them, automatically selecting them based on document dimensions etc

[naphtali]

Originally Posted by ginoledesma 

Ahh, so you've already decided to go for the PostScript-enabled printer. Most people IN design will want printers having PostScript, since chances are the software they use (and their very job) relies on it. PostScript 3 has better support for colors, transparency, more fonts, and the like. But... for those not in the pre-press industry, PDF gives you most of the benefits PostScript offers. The areas where you would normally be concerned for requiring PostScript would be transparency and color management.

Not saying you shouldn't go for it, though, since you can afford it, and don't mind spending for it for peace of mind. So long as you're happy with the device, that's what matters most.

I really wasn't sure about all that, and I still am not. But I'm interested in design stuff, and would certainly like to learn more about it and get better at it so I went for the PS.

Didn't want it to bite my ass or crimp my style later on, especially since it's not an upgradeable option