[lavar78]

Originally Posted by Millennium

You're not a troll; you aren't posting with the intent to piss people off.

See, I'm going to have to disagree with this. He is clearly trolling.

Originally Posted by Oisín

I couldn't care less about having FM radio options (I don't listen to it anyway), but for once I find myself, much against my will, agreeing with a single little thing James says: I would like to have a recording option available for iPods. I would love to be able to record concerts directly on to my iPod, rather than having to use MiniDiscs or something similar (barring of course proper, professional equipment, which I have no hope of affording).

But that's just it. There are plenty of people who don't want FM radio or voice recording (including me). That market is huge. If people want those features, they can look for add-ons or buy another player. If people don't want them, they're not really "features" at all. That's why I know he's a troll. He can't honestly think that everyone wants FM radio and/or voice recording.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by MacNStein

Didn't we explain that we don't care about radio? We carry iPods so that we can escape the crap played on radio.

Man, radio sucks so bad.

[lavar78]

Originally Posted by smacintush

Man, radio sucks so bad.

Exactly. I haven't really listened to it since I got my 1G iPod in 2001.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by Oisín

I couldn't care less about having FM radio options (I don't listen to it anyway), but for once I find myself, much against my will, agreeing with a single little thing James says: I would like to have a recording option available for iPods. I would love to be able to record concerts directly on to my iPod, rather than having to use MiniDiscs or something similar (barring of course proper, professional equipment, which I have no hope of affording).

Um, technically that's illegal anyway. Sometimes the artists give permission -the Grateful Dead were known for doing that- and then it's fine, but most artists don't do that. I suspect that Apple may actually be in a legal position here. As the only company that both runs a music store and makes a portable player, the RIAA is in a pretty impressive position to veto proposed features from any proposed iPod which Apple might make. This is unfortunate, and is a serious abuse of the RIAA's monopoly, but it's the reality of the situation right now.

As it happens, I don't care about the radio anyway. I consider "doing one thing and doing it well" to be a feature in and of itself, because it means that the product isn't getting bloated with unnecessary junk. It generally also means that because it can focus on its core strengths, it can do those better than anything else out there, and I believe the iPod family does that. The iPod's competitors have gotten caught up in featuritis, and yet they all fail. Why? Because they don't focus on what really matters to people: playing their music.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by james9490

That's what I call "cheating." You still need to resort to third party vendors to get all those colors.

So what? Must Apple make everything?

Besides, how about FM radio?

Most people don't care about FM radio in an MP3 player; they already have radios that they use when they want to listen to that. I think this is nicely borne out by the iPod's dominance over all FM-sporting players combined. There may be some killer feature which will get people to switch in significant numbers from iPods to something else, but FM radio clearly didn't do it.

[wallinbl]

Originally Posted by james9490

That's what I call "cheating." You still need to resort to third party vendors to get all those colors. Besides, how about FM radio?

It's not cheating, it's a good idea. You can easily and inexpensively change your colors to match your outfit.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by lavar78

But that's just it. There are plenty of people who don't want FM radio or voice recording (including me). That market is huge. If people want those features, they can look for add-ons or buy another player. If people don't want them, they're not really "features" at all. That's why I know he's a troll. He can't honestly think that everyone wants FM radio and/or voice recording.

Not everyone, no; but I do think it's fairly safe to say that at least a certain percentage of people would like to have the option of recording sound with their iPod. Most people I know who own iPods don't use them merely as MP3 players, but as portable hard drives as well; and since you already have a 30 GB portable hard drive (for my sake, that is), I think sound recording is a logical feature to add to the iPod. Microphone should obviously not be supplied (that would be a waste, in the same way that the camera connector is not supplied either), but the possibility of hooking up a microphone and record sound is something I would like to see in iPods. Or, at the very least, the possibility of downloading and installing a program that would allow you to do it. (A mic in plug would naturally still be needed)

I know the sound recording market is huge (note that I'm not talking about voice recording; I don't have the slightest need for a dictaphone, I want something I can use to record concert and the likes), and that there is no real reason to stop at sound recording (why not video recording? VoIP phone integration? Hell, stuff in a kitchen sink now we're at it!). But there is a limit to how many different gadgets I want to be lugging around, and I for one think that sound recording it a logical thing to add to a sound item; more so than photo displaying, in fact. I find it logical that a sound playing device should also be to record sound, rather than just play it. In the same way that I think a video cassette player would be useless if not also usable for recording video. (Okay, VCRs are quite useless these days all the same. Make it DVD players, then: I find it idiotic that you can use them to play DVDs, but not to record DVDs.)

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by Millennium

Um, technically that's illegal anyway. Sometimes the artists give permission -the Grateful Dead were known for doing that- and then it's fine, but most artists don't do that. I suspect that Apple may actually be in a legal position here. As the only company that both runs a music store and makes a portable player, the RIAA is in a pretty impressive position to veto proposed features from any proposed iPod which Apple might make. This is unfortunate, and is a serious abuse of the RIAA's monopoly, but it's the reality of the situation right now.

Well, for good measure, I should mention that most artists do allow their shows to be taped (speaking in absolute, numeric terms here; almost all artists that disallow recording of live shows are big-time names. Small, rather unknown names only very rarely do so, and the unknown artists outnumber the big names a million to one, as you of course know; but I see your point). I have also never been to even one concert where the artist didn't allow it.

In by far the most cases where recording is not allowed, it's not even the artists disallowing it, but the venue where they play. Same thing with taking pictures. Not many artists disallow pictures at concerts, but many many venues do.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Millennium

JApple has had a greater marketshare than even Windows in the audio editing and production market for many years. They also have Logic Pro, one of the most heavily-used programs in music production in both its current incarnation and its previous incarnation as Logic Audio. They made the first home computers to provide sampled sound by default, then the first home computers to do wavetable audio, and the first to provide CD-ROM drives as default across the entire product line.

Go on; tell me with a straight face that Apple doesn't know audio.

Sorry Mill, going to have to disagree with you here. Apple doesn't know audio. At least not professional audio, anyways.

1) Logic has become a toy since Apple bought Emagic. For example, Logic is pretty pointless to pro musicians without a MIDI interface like the AMT8. AMT8 was on Emagic website before the Apple buy. Now all the Emagic site does is point back at the page for Logic on the Apple site, no mention of AMT8 at all. This is completely useless for pro musicians. It's not so much their product at fault as their marketing philosophy of making everything simple and computer-based - in this case, they've made it too simple and lessened the ability to centre Logic in the studio.

2) No home computer has ever had wavetable synthesis. Not ever. It's S+S, or subtractive. Wavetable synthesis has only ever been seen in instruments from hardware manufacturers such as PPG, Waldorf, Ensoniq and (currently) Access. This whole confusion started when M$ started calling their soundcards "Wavetable" because they used samples (which M$ call "waves") and "tables" of memory to store them in.

3) Possibly the only reason for Apple becoming the number one in the music biz is because "classic OS" was the closest thing to the Atari OS when things started going wrong for Atari (the ST was the absolute industry standard in music). It was just easier for folks to switch from TOS to Apple than TOS to Win 3.1.

Having said that, you're still way more right than JamesWhatever.

[lavar78]

Originally Posted by Oisín

Not everyone, no; but I do think it's fairly safe to say that at least a certain percentage of people would like to have the option of recording sound with their iPod.

I just don't think it's a big enough segment that Apple should devote time and resources to implementing it. Sounds like a job for Belkin or someone.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by lavar78

I just don't think it's a big enough segment that Apple should devote time and resources to implementing it. Sounds like a job for Belkin or someone.

I can accept that, no problems. But the option should be there, integrated or not.

[Scandalous Ion Cannon]

james9490 really seems threatened by the Nano. He is probably just trying to justify his purchase of the Micro.

[ReggieX]

Voted 1 for blatant stupidity.

[ReggieX]

Originally Posted by Doofy

3) Possibly the only reason for Apple becoming the number one in the music biz is because "classic OS" was the closest thing to the Atari OS when things started going wrong for Atari (the ST was the absolute industry standard in music). It was just easier for folks to switch from TOS to Apple than TOS to Win 3.1.

I'd say ProTools has more to do with it than the GUI, but that would likely be part of it.

[Randman]

Originally Posted by Scandalous Ion Cannon

james9490 really seems threatened by the Nano. He is probably just trying to justify his purchase of the Micro.

[MindFad]

Originally Posted by james9490

I am very sure many young girls would be choosing this pink one over mean looking black iPod. Besides, didn't you notice that they offer 10 different colors for ZEN?

What? Come on, what's your real handle? This is awesome stuff.

[jasonsRX7]

James, it's not funny anymore. Ok it was funny in the Mighty Mouse thread, but you're killing the joke now.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by james9490

Okay, I guess iPod syncs with Outlook, but the Mac don't have Outlook. Besides, iCal is just a small calendar program for novices and hobbyists, and Outlook is for serious work. How can you use iCal for any serious work anyway?

Is that what Bill told you last night in bed?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by james9490

That only proves that many consumers are not educated, they are just doing inpulse-buying, and many of them will regret their decision to go with iPod because ZEN is still a clear winner in value/price ratio.

I assure you most people who buy an iPod, don't do it out of impulse. They search all the sites on what the best mp3 player is.

In most cases, everyone will tell them iPod. Not because of it's lack of radio. But it's over-all user experinece. Something the Zen is lacking.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by james9490

Here is an excellent example of why WMA beats AAC big time. It is more efficient: 64kbps WMA equals 128kbps MP3, which equals to 192kbps AAC. Apple has made a huge error choosing AAC as their primary music file format.

What? In theory (yes, I'd use the word theory for WMA too) 64 kps AAC also equals a 128 kps MP3.

[AB^2=BCxAC]

Millenium has in multiple posts delivered TKO slapdowns. RAILhead has delivered pics of chicks. This thread is officially "been there, done that, bought the t-shirt."

[goMac]

Originally Posted by james9490

I am very sure many young girls would be choosing this pink one over mean looking black iPod. Besides, didn't you notice that they offer 10 different colors for ZEN?

Wow... The irony here...

I remember the days when the PC users were like "Macs are lame, and what's with all the lame colors?"

Now it's "Look at us! Our MP3 players come in lame colors!"

(Usually instead of lame they'd use another choice word, but I changed for the sake of political correctness)

[analogika]

Originally Posted by james9490

That's what I call "cheating." You still need to resort to third party vendors to get all those colors.

James, at least TRY to inform yourself before you spout lies - you're embarrassing yourself.

Those Nano Tubes are Apple-made, and Apple-sold.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by james9490

ZEN = 10 electrifying colors

Electrifying? You are either a huge geek, work for the company, or a troll.

Who the f*ck talks like that?

[turtle777]

Mwahahahahah

Best thread EVAR. What a great Friday laugh.

*wiping_tears*

-t

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by AB^2=BCxAC

Millenium has in multiple posts delivered TKO slapdowns. RAILhead has delivered pics of chicks. This thread is officially "been there, done that, bought the t-shirt."

WAIT!! I forgot my pièce de résistance:



OK, now we can lockinate this heifer.

Maury

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by ReggieX

I'd say ProTools has more to do with it than the GUI, but that would likely be part of it.

The music industry "switch" happened before ProTools was invented... ...just about the time when SDII was being introduced. SDII wasn't a factor either, as there were plenty of stereo solutions which would run on an ST or a Falcon. Atari screwed up, people jumped ship to the closest relative (not surprisingly the Mac, as Apple had actually sued DRI over GEM 1 for "look and feel" - GEM 1 was what was in the Atari ST). Simple as that.

[PacHead]

Originally Posted by james9490

Consumers should know these facts before making any mistakes suckered into buying one of these iPods.

Is somebody at creative sucking your nano sized dick or were you just born with your unfortunate handicap ?

The ZEN micro is not micro at all, that's false advertising. You like ugly things, I bet your girlfriend looks like a dog, that's if you have one, something that is highly unlikely.

I'm not going to waste that much time with you other to say that the Ipod nano will outsell the ZEN by a margin of 50 to 1. To sum it up, the ZEN sucks, Windows suck and you suck.
Please go away, even Canadians are better than you.

[Randman]

That's a bit uncalled for, even I agree with your sentiment.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by PacHead

... nano sized dick ...

So obvious, yet it took nearly two whole pages for someone to utilise that one. (No, I hadn't thought of it, either).

you suck.

Now I'm confused—I thought you said girlfriend

[ambush]

Your paycheck is in the mail

-- Creative.

[lavar78]

Originally Posted by Randman

That's a bit uncalled for

And that surprises you?

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Doofy

1) Logic has become a toy since Apple bought Emagic. For example, Logic is pretty pointless to pro musicians without a MIDI interface like the AMT8. AMT8 was on Emagic website before the Apple buy. Now all the Emagic site does is point back at the page for Logic on the Apple site, no mention of AMT8 at all. This is completely useless for pro musicians. It's not so much their product at fault as their marketing philosophy of making everything simple and computer-based - in this case, they've made it too simple and lessened the ability to centre Logic in the studio.

I don't question your expertise, but to claim that Logic is somehow less useful a tool because the Emagic hardware is no longer being built is a bit like saying that travel agencies are useless to business travellers since TWA and Pan Am went out of business.

There are other MIDI interfaces out there.

I am not aware of ANY functionality having been removed from Logic Pro over the old Emagic software - on the contrary.

[Scandalous Ion Cannon]

Pachead is one angry with himself dude.

[sek929]

Apple took a stranglehold over the portable MP3 market after introducing the iPod. Now when parents talk about an MP3 player they say "iPod" much like you ask for a Kleenex.

The Zen is ugly and doesn't have a scroll wheel. I consider the scroll wheel to be the single most important feature in any portable music device that uses playlists.

Apple has already won over the public with the iPod, even my PCs friends can't deny how awesome Apple is at making a portable music player. They all own them as well.

Which brings me to my next statement. Why are you here? Are you really this insecure about Macs that you need to constantly try to bring Mac users down to your level? You do understand that we are used to this, right? We've been the whipping boy of computer "experts" for decades, yet our company still flourishes and we are happy with our choice.

Oh yeah, WMV better than AAC? Hahahahaahahaha! oh man, thats classic. I use 192 Mp3 myself, but WMV? If it weren't for low-quality pornos I wouldn't even need Windows Media.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by sek929

If it weren't for low-quality pornos I wouldn't even need Windows Media.

[Scandalous Ion Cannon]

Originally Posted by sek929

Are you really this insecure about Macs that you need to constantly try to bring Mac users down to your level?

He is insecure about PC's actually.

[PacHead]

Originally Posted by analogika

I don't question your expertise, but to claim that Logic is somehow less useful a tool because the Emagic hardware is no longer being built is a bit like saying that travel agencies are useless to business travellers since TWA and Pan Am went out of business.

There are other MIDI interfaces out there.

I am not aware of ANY functionality having been removed from Logic Pro over the old Emagic software - on the contrary.

Logic is no toy, that's ridiculous. I know every sequencer out there, I've tried and used most of them. I never even gave Logic a second thought before, it was too illogical. It's way better now that Apple has taken over.

[sek929]

Yeah I worded it wrong, meh.

I used a Zen at Best Buy once (it was a red one, OOoooo) the button system on the front sucks, the buttons on the side and top suck, WMV sucks, James sucks. Where is Nimisys when you need him? A PC lover, yes, but at least he came up with decent arguments.

[PacHead]

Originally Posted by Scandalous Ion Cannon

Pachead is one angry with himself dude.

I am quite content, regardless of what you may assume.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by sek929

Apple took a stranglehold over the portable MP3 market after introducing the iPod. Now when parents talk about an MP3 player they say "iPod" much like you ask for a Kleenex.

I think I've said it once before here, but a [highly unintelligent] girl who lives on this corridor once claimed she'd seen an iPod laptop. I asked if she meant a Mac, an Apple laptop? No no, an iPod laptop. Upon closer inspection, it turned out she actually did mean an Apple laptop: she was under the impression that the Apple logo was the iPod logo, and that everything with that apple on them was an iPod.

If it weren't for low-quality pornos I wouldn't even need Windows Media.

:superthumbsup:

[Scandalous Ion Cannon]

Originally Posted by PacHead

I am quite content, regardless of what you may assume.

I never said you weren't content in the mindset you are in.

[demograph68]

Originally Posted by james9490

I am very sure many young girls would be choosing this pink one over mean looking black iPod.

RACIST!

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by demograph68

RACIST!

Good point. Is he trying to say that anything black is "mean looking"?

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by demograph68

RACIST!

-t

[Kevin]

[typoon]

Originally Posted by james9490

That's what I call "cheating." You still need to resort to third party vendors to get all those colors. Besides, how about FM radio?

Um those are made by Apple. Yup a third party company. I believe Jobs called them Nanotubes.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by analogika

There are other MIDI interfaces out there.

With the Emagic timing interface protocol in them?

Originally Posted by analogika

I am not aware of ANY functionality having been removed from Logic Pro over the old Emagic software - on the contrary.

So where's SoundDiver then?
Answer: They've dropped it because they expect folks to use the inbuilt soft-synths, rather than need any form of library facility for their external synths. This is my point - they're trying to get everyone to do everything "inside the box" and don't really understand that pro folks who use it want it to drive external gear, not the crappy included soft-synths. It's become an overblown GarageBand, a toy.

To prove the point:


Check that. Overblown GarageBand. Since when did professional musicians require pictures of the instruments in the track list?

Originally Posted by PacHead

Logic is no toy, that's ridiculous. I know every sequencer out there, I've tried and used most of them.

In a professional capacity? Or as a hobbyist?


Still... ...what do I care? I've been badgering Roland to put slave capability in the MV and will pretty much stick with a couple of those.

[nayr x]

You guys might as well be arguing with an eight year old.

Just ignore him so he will get bored and go bother his mommy to buy him the new Talking Kungfu Ballmer Action Doll instead.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by nayr x

You guys might as well be arguing with an eight year old.

Just ignore him so he will get bored and go bother his mommy to buy him the new Talking Kungfu Ballmer Action Doll instead.

I heard it comes with a break apart chair